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today on the show Leslie came in Mike

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Anthony I was sitting in England with

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Leslie and this man Stuart Alexander and

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I saw the thing happen right in front of

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my eyes that Leslie talks about in the

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book it's real right there are some

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things that just simply are objectively

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true are objectively real and when I saw

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this thing happen that blew me away

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and I from then on started to believe

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that my dad really was here but when I

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saw this thing happen it moved me from

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believing it was real to knowing it was

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real I can't describe how big of a shift

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that was in my life this is somewhere in

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the sky's Branzburg

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[Music]

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welcome to somewhere in the skies I'm

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your host Ryan Sprague and guess what

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you're going to die we all are

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it's the singular thing that every less

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one of us has in common and as sooner we

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accept that the sooner we can start

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asking the tougher questions what

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happens when we die where do we go do we

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go anywhere our body ceases to function

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but what about the unknown force within

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us our consciousness or on a religious

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level our soul are they different or one

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in the same our brains shut down but

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what about everything we've ever learned

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or experienced do our memories just flip

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out into blankness like nothing ever

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happened when we think of death many of

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us brush it aside and save it for

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another day and then those days turn

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into months and those months turn into

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years and then we're faced with that

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inevitable question ourselves of our own

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mortality

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no matter your beliefs no matter your

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shying away from it or accepting it

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death is a mystery we've only begun to

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scratch the surface of in today's guests

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have dug deeper into this mortal mystery

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like nobody else returning this week is

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investigative journalist and New York

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Times bestselling author Leslie came her

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most recent book surviving death a

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journalist investigates evidence for an

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afterlife tackles the very questions I

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just asked and so much more Mike Anthony

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is an actor in New York City several

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years ago his father died unexpectedly

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that something extraordinary occurred

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something Mike didn't believe was

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possible and ever since he's been on a

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personal journey to find out if his

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father ended with his body or continues

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on in ways we once thought impossible

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but are now beginning to understand in

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the most profound of ways here's our

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conversation with Leslie Kane and Mike

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Anthony I am here with Mike my let's

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talk about how you and I first connected

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before the three of us connected yeah we

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have a pretty long history yeah I mean

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first of all I want to say that it's

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humbling for me I feel sort of out of

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place being here with these two great

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researchers that you know I'm just a

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dumb dumb bartender no stem here with

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you guys who have you know he's a

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bartender - yeah yes

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he was devoted years of study and you

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know Leslie's a you know a world-class

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journalist and so I feel a little bit

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out of place but yeah you and I know

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each other because we work in the

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theater world and way back when I guess

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at this point it's like ten years ago or

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so yeah before there was Hamilton there

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was a little show called in the heights

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that's right oh that man was not [\h__\h]

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and I remember that's when I met you

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that's right I was doing I was selling

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t-shirts and I looked over and you were

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there every day it's right and you put a

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smile on everyone's faces you know how

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hard our New York Authority days were

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and then one day I overheard you talking

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to somebody about UFO stuff you know

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quote-unquote UFO stuff man and my ears

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pricked up like a like a dog and I was

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like how could you say you have huh

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because you know there aren't a lot of

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people in my life that I share this

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interest with you know though I've been

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interested in it since I was a young kid

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most of the kids I grew up with thought

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I was actually insane for believing that

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something was going on that we couldn't

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explain so when I heard you talking

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about it that day the theater that

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that's how we sort of really started to

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become friends talking about this topic

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absolutely and then I learned that you

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were you are sort of going into a world

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that I'd never explored in that

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had to do with I guess some could say

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supernatural paranormal even but um more

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specifically the afterlife yeah

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something I never touched no is it a

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fear it could be I know a lot of people

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death is one of the scariest things they

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could possibly think of and they choose

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not to think about it yeah

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and I had just learned that Leslie had

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written a book all about what you were

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about to talk about and research after

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after her first book about UFOs

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so Leslie how did how did you go from

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UFOs to this I have to ask how did this

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all come about for you well it wasn't

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really related to UFOs except that it's

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sort of is because it's a big mystery so

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all during the years and I was

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investigating UFOs I sort of had this in

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the background this question of what

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happens when you die or is there any

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kind of survival past death that's the

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question right and can it be looked at

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from a scientific perspective not just a

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matter of religion or belief systems or

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even not just a matter of personal

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experiences but really a matter of

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scientific study and investigations and

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stuff like that so I've always been

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interested in that question so after my

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UFO book came out it was then there was

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a couple of years where I was dealing

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with stuff related to the book and that

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was all of a sudden like what next and I

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my publisher actually invited me to

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write another book and this was like the

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perfect topic it was something I really

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wanted to do I just the obvious topic

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for me to do my next book on and I'd

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really spent so long in UFOs that I was

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kind of ready to move on to something

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else anyway welcome to my life to life

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after a simple thing big mysteries yeah

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but I'm just it's my journalistic mine

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my probing curiosity kind of gets hooked

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by these things and they're usually

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things that we don't answers for but

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that makes them in some ways even more

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interesting right so yeah and I've done

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a little research on this over the years

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I've looked into it you a case of a

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child who remember to pass life because

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I was involved some people who are

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making movie about it so I kind of got

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introduced to a bunch of people involved

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in the field and stuff so I sort of you

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know had some some awareness of it but

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not a lot I had no idea what was gonna

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happen when I started the circuit I did

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turned out I had a whole lot of personal

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stuff stuff happened to me I never

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expected to happen so I became a journey

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a personal journey for me he the first

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book was about research I had never seen

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a UFO so it was definitely not about

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experience but with this kind of

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material you can choose to enter into it

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on an experiential level you don't have

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to wait for the UFO to show up you could

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there's various things you can do too

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and we can talk about that to explore

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the material yourself and when you do

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that you become a participant in a

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certain sense out of choice and that's

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one of the different aspects of this is

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fascinating and it would love to dig

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into that becoming a part of of what

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you're doing I think that's a big part

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of all this and you're right I think

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when it comes to the UFO topic it's

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dropped in the lap of an observer

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without any you know for a lot of

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witnesses UFO witnesses no preconceived

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notions no interest in the topic of UFOs

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it's not a choice it's not a chop never

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happen but for something like this I I

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think it's interesting it's such a

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deeper look into something a different

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phenomenon or possibly an interconnected

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phenomena and we'll get to that where

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you can choose to be a participant yeah

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test certain things and then also it

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means things happen to me that I that I

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didn't really choose that I never

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expected to happen but that you know

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that that to thing happen yeah well

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talking about personal journeys Mike how

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how did you get interested in the topic

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of the afterlife and get connected with

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Leslie yeah well I've always had an

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interest in these questions you know

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these sort of bigger picture questions

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you know starting from when I was a

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young kid and I'd never seen a UFO but I

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was interested in that it was something

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that because I was scientifically minded

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from a young age I was gonna be a high

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school science teacher before I became

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an actor that's where I was headed

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so you know I was a biology major for a

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couple of weeks and in college so I know

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what I'm talking about so what happened

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though was my dad passed away and this

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is about nine years ago now and my

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sister had hired a medium to come to our

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house into a reading and a medium is a

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person who claims the ability to somehow

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sense people who are no longer in a

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physical body and I had known vaguely

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about mediumship from the show crossing

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over with John Edward John Adler yep I'm

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a member veteran and that was my only

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real other than the movie ghost with you

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know Whoopi Goldberg ghosts and John

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Edward those are that was my exposure a

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mediumship but until one extreme to the

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other yes yes exactly and I found that

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show interesting but you know it was on

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television so I assumed it was highly

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edited and and the reaction seemed real

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from the from the sitters in the

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audience but who knew how he was getting

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that information in the network

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producers in his ear giving him you know

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I had no idea so when this woman came to

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our house I decided I was gonna test her

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by coming up with a sort of a secret

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code that I wanted my dad to get this

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woman to say if it was the real deal

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and the the reading lasted for about two

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hours and the whole thing was

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extraordinary she was coming up with

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details that you know the levels of

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specificity that I did not think could

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be possible that you know I at one point

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I was looking around the room to see if

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there were like photographs or something

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up on the wall that she was getting

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information from because there were some

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really highly specific things and and

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everyone was in tears and I had totally

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forgotten by the end of it that I'd come

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up with this code word with my dad

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because I was already convinced that

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something was going on that I could not

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personally explain at that time and then

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as we were wrapping up to leave she

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looked at me and said exactly the thing

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that I had passed my dad to have her say

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wow I gasped because I hadn't said it to

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anyone else on the face of planet Earth

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not even my mom and sister who were

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00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:37,340
there with me

273
00:11:41,890 --> 00:11:40,490
nobody knew this and so right then in

274
00:11:43,770 --> 00:11:41,900
that moment it was

275
00:11:48,100 --> 00:11:43,780
it was one of those paradigm-shifting

276
00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:48,110
moments where it felt to me right then

277
00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:52,370
that what my science teachers had told

278
00:11:58,360 --> 00:11:55,850
me was not the complete story that we

279
00:12:00,340 --> 00:11:58,370
don't have this thing figured out yet so

280
00:12:03,190 --> 00:12:00,350
I couldn't let it go my mind couldn't

281
00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:03,200
let it go but I'm skeptical by Nature

282
00:12:08,020 --> 00:12:04,610
and you know there's something called a

283
00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:08,030
you know retro cognitive dissonance

284
00:12:11,890 --> 00:12:09,410
isn't right where something doesn't

285
00:12:14,610 --> 00:12:11,900
necessarily comport with your sense of

286
00:12:17,860 --> 00:12:14,620
how the world is supposed to be working

287
00:12:22,230 --> 00:12:17,870
the brain is really good at dismissing

288
00:12:25,330 --> 00:12:22,240
things and in sort of retro actively

289
00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:25,340
figuring out ways that it you might have

290
00:12:30,370 --> 00:12:28,850
Mis perceived something so then I start

291
00:12:32,530 --> 00:12:30,380
thinking well could could there be any

292
00:12:34,300 --> 00:12:32,540
way she had my sister's phone number

293
00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:34,310
maybe she hired a private detective and

294
00:12:37,570 --> 00:12:35,810
they were out like listening to me when

295
00:12:39,130 --> 00:12:37,580
I was all alone at my dad's house and I

296
00:12:40,660 --> 00:12:39,140
said this thing to my dad maybe they had

297
00:12:42,270 --> 00:12:40,670
some really sensitive audio equipment

298
00:12:46,180 --> 00:12:42,280
you know which I know was insane and I

299
00:12:48,490 --> 00:12:46,190
but it's a possibility and I needed to

300
00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:48,500
rule that out so I called this woman

301
00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:51,290
back her name is Angelina Diana it was

302
00:12:54,790 --> 00:12:53,210
about a year later and I said you know

303
00:12:55,780 --> 00:12:54,800
you're not gonna remember me but I have

304
00:13:00,490 --> 00:12:55,790
this reading with you and it was

305
00:13:01,180 --> 00:13:00,500
life-changing but I'd like to see you do

306
00:13:03,820 --> 00:13:01,190
that again

307
00:13:05,410 --> 00:13:03,830
with people that I bring to you so that

308
00:13:08,710 --> 00:13:05,420
I will know there's no way you could be

309
00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:08,720
cheating in any kind of a normal way and

310
00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:11,450
she immediately said yes sure I'll do

311
00:13:13,450 --> 00:13:11,690
that

312
00:13:15,660 --> 00:13:13,460
which is a big risk for her right

313
00:13:17,860 --> 00:13:15,670
because she took she gave me no

314
00:13:19,780 --> 00:13:17,870
instructions there were no no rules

315
00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:19,790
about this whole thing she signed the

316
00:13:22,780 --> 00:13:21,770
release form right away you notice I

317
00:13:23,980 --> 00:13:22,790
said I'm gonna bring people to I'm gonna

318
00:13:26,530 --> 00:13:23,990
film it I want to make a documentary

319
00:13:28,570 --> 00:13:26,540
about it and whether or not a person is

320
00:13:30,750 --> 00:13:28,580
legitimately doing something that

321
00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:30,760
science currently says it's not possible

322
00:13:37,660 --> 00:13:34,250
it doesn't matter if an editor can make

323
00:13:39,070 --> 00:13:37,670
you look great or or terrible you know

324
00:13:41,500 --> 00:13:39,080
depending on how they splice things

325
00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:41,510
together so she was taking a risk by

326
00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:45,010
giving this stranger at that time the

327
00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:48,290
the right to put this story together

328
00:13:53,230 --> 00:13:51,050
however I saw fit so anyway I started

329
00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:53,240
bringing people to her random people and

330
00:13:57,620 --> 00:13:55,770
I watched her time and again

331
00:14:00,350 --> 00:13:57,630
come up with information specific

332
00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:00,360
information often that I couldn't

333
00:14:04,310 --> 00:14:02,250
understand you know where it was coming

334
00:14:07,010 --> 00:14:04,320
from or who she was doing it so so that

335
00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:07,020
started me down this path of seeing wait

336
00:14:12,350 --> 00:14:08,250
a minute first of all there are ways you

337
00:14:15,140 --> 00:14:12,360
can test this and and then I started

338
00:14:17,090 --> 00:14:15,150
reading reading books about it and came

339
00:14:18,650 --> 00:14:17,100
to discover that there has been so much

340
00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:18,660
research down into this and I had no

341
00:14:25,100 --> 00:14:21,090
idea that places like Stanford and Duke

342
00:14:27,470 --> 00:14:25,110
and Harvard have in Princeton have

343
00:14:30,500 --> 00:14:27,480
studied the quote-unquote paranormal for

344
00:14:32,540 --> 00:14:30,510
years for years but sometimes getting

345
00:14:36,170 --> 00:14:32,550
what we would call positive results that

346
00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:36,180
something unexplained was going on you

347
00:14:40,970 --> 00:14:37,770
know studies like at Princeton I think

348
00:14:44,930 --> 00:14:40,980
it was the ESP study at Princeton I

349
00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:44,940
recently read any Jacobson her

350
00:14:48,500 --> 00:14:46,650
phenomenon which is about the Stargate

351
00:14:50,210 --> 00:14:48,510
program and the CIA's involvement and

352
00:14:52,910 --> 00:14:50,220
the millions of dollars they spent

353
00:14:53,990 --> 00:14:52,920
studying remote viewing Leslie and I

354
00:14:56,810 --> 00:14:54,000
were just talking about this the other

355
00:15:00,110 --> 00:14:56,820
day there's there's one case there that

356
00:15:01,370 --> 00:15:00,120
this case alone this instance alone is

357
00:15:03,140 --> 00:15:01,380
mind-boggling

358
00:15:06,140 --> 00:15:03,150
it was early Geller who I know there's

359
00:15:08,090 --> 00:15:06,150
controversy about there is a it's been I

360
00:15:10,460 --> 00:15:08,100
believe now this has been released I

361
00:15:12,020 --> 00:15:10,470
think Annie wrote about this in any

362
00:15:15,110 --> 00:15:12,030
Jacobson wrote about it in her book I

363
00:15:18,110 --> 00:15:15,120
believes Wright first saw this at one

364
00:15:19,670 --> 00:15:18,120
point they had a picture put in a box

365
00:15:21,140 --> 00:15:19,680
it's like you know in a Faraday cage and

366
00:15:22,690 --> 00:15:21,150
everything so there's no way he could be

367
00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:22,700
getting any sort of electromagnetic

368
00:15:27,740 --> 00:15:25,290
reading from this thing and they asked

369
00:15:29,450 --> 00:15:27,750
him to remote you the picture that was

370
00:15:32,780 --> 00:15:29,460
the the thing that was in the box and he

371
00:15:36,650 --> 00:15:32,790
started drying these circles and he drew

372
00:15:38,300 --> 00:15:36,660
27 we was 27 circles like a bunch of

373
00:15:40,370 --> 00:15:38,310
grapes it looked like a bunch of grapes

374
00:15:42,650 --> 00:15:40,380
and that's what he said it was and when

375
00:15:45,410 --> 00:15:42,660
they opened up the box it was a picture

376
00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:45,420
of a bunch of grapes and there were 27

377
00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:48,330
circles so that what are the chances of

378
00:15:52,670 --> 00:15:51,090
that alone astronaut astronomically

379
00:15:54,380 --> 00:15:52,680
small but that could be coincidence yeah

380
00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:54,390
you know that they didn't have the exact

381
00:15:57,440 --> 00:15:55,890
number of circles so anyway I was

382
00:16:01,100 --> 00:15:57,450
fascinated to find that there's been so

383
00:16:04,460 --> 00:16:01,110
much study about this and and this is

384
00:16:08,519 --> 00:16:04,470
how I you know I knew Leslie's work from

385
00:16:11,759 --> 00:16:08,529
from her UFO book in 2010 was long

386
00:16:13,199 --> 00:16:11,769
in 2010 and then sitting in Barnes &

387
00:16:15,689 --> 00:16:13,209
Noble one day doing a bunch of research

388
00:16:18,389 --> 00:16:15,699
you know reading and then I went to the

389
00:16:21,509 --> 00:16:18,399
bathroom and on my way there was a book

390
00:16:23,129 --> 00:16:21,519
facing out on the top shelf and it was

391
00:16:24,629 --> 00:16:23,139
surviving death and I didn't see the

392
00:16:25,439 --> 00:16:24,639
name on it at that point I was just on

393
00:16:27,929 --> 00:16:25,449
my way to the bathroom

394
00:16:29,069 --> 00:16:27,939
Oh surviving death that's that I'm gonna

395
00:16:30,779 --> 00:16:29,079
have to come back and look at that so I

396
00:16:32,849 --> 00:16:30,789
come back out and I take it down and

397
00:16:34,559 --> 00:16:32,859
it's Leslie's book and that's like oh my

398
00:16:36,539 --> 00:16:34,569
gosh you know and I know I trust her

399
00:16:39,209 --> 00:16:36,549
journey her you know her journalistic

400
00:16:41,099 --> 00:16:39,219
integrity completely and so I thought

401
00:16:43,019 --> 00:16:41,109
this would be a fascinating read which

402
00:16:46,289 --> 00:16:43,029
it was and I read it like cover to cover

403
00:16:49,199 --> 00:16:46,299
and I believe it was I think it was the

404
00:16:51,359 --> 00:16:49,209
next day that I had posted something

405
00:16:54,179 --> 00:16:51,369
about the documentary I was making on

406
00:16:55,319 --> 00:16:54,189
Facebook and you Ryan wrote to me and

407
00:16:57,059 --> 00:16:55,329
said hey you know I should put you in

408
00:16:58,919 --> 00:16:57,069
touch with Leslie King I was like well

409
00:17:00,239 --> 00:16:58,929
you know let I had no idea that you that

410
00:17:01,619 --> 00:17:00,249
you knew Leslie you've known her for

411
00:17:05,460 --> 00:17:01,629
years she had read your book and blurb

412
00:17:08,699 --> 00:17:05,470
your book and anyway it all led to -

413
00:17:11,069 --> 00:17:08,709
Leslie and us Leslie and I meeting and

414
00:17:13,109 --> 00:17:11,079
then we became you know friends and and

415
00:17:14,759 --> 00:17:13,119
yeah just just the fact that I'm sitting

416
00:17:17,189 --> 00:17:14,769
in Leslie's apartment right now feels

417
00:17:20,429 --> 00:17:17,199
pretty surreal the dominoes that had a

418
00:17:23,129 --> 00:17:20,439
fall yeah and then the book that she

419
00:17:25,740 --> 00:17:23,139
wrote surviving death is this fantastic

420
00:17:28,379 --> 00:17:25,750
book that study that that looks at the

421
00:17:30,779 --> 00:17:28,389
best evidence currently out there that

422
00:17:32,820 --> 00:17:30,789
suggests seems to suggest that

423
00:17:35,009 --> 00:17:32,830
consciousness might exist as something

424
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:35,019
separate from the physical body and that

425
00:17:40,409 --> 00:17:37,210
it might survive the death of the

426
00:17:42,299 --> 00:17:40,419
physical body she looks at these various

427
00:17:44,850 --> 00:17:42,309
lines of evidence all of which are

428
00:17:46,590 --> 00:17:44,860
fascinating and I guess you know I

429
00:17:48,509 --> 00:17:46,600
should I'm doing all blogging here's you

430
00:17:52,259 --> 00:17:48,519
know I'm gonna know this this is a good

431
00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:52,269
place to UM to sort of look at the idea

432
00:17:58,379 --> 00:17:55,450
of afterlife I think for a lot of people

433
00:18:01,889 --> 00:17:58,389
out there it's it's such a quote-unquote

434
00:18:04,529 --> 00:18:01,899
morbid topic to explore because a lot of

435
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:04,539
us are afraid of that of what comes next

436
00:18:09,180 --> 00:18:07,210
none of us truly know you know the two

437
00:18:11,730 --> 00:18:09,190
biggest question is what happens when

438
00:18:14,190 --> 00:18:11,740
you die and is there life elsewhere in

439
00:18:16,379 --> 00:18:14,200
the universe I think we're getting a lot

440
00:18:19,049 --> 00:18:16,389
closer to some of those answers to both

441
00:18:22,409 --> 00:18:19,059
of those questions possibly maybe not

442
00:18:25,409 --> 00:18:22,419
but this is one that I and I'm

443
00:18:27,509 --> 00:18:25,419
a lot of other people in my place shy

444
00:18:31,649 --> 00:18:27,519
away from and we look at as supernatural

445
00:18:35,099 --> 00:18:31,659
it's paranormal it's it's um Michelle

446
00:18:38,580 --> 00:18:35,109
farts not even worth looking at in a

447
00:18:41,099 --> 00:18:38,590
scientific way yet now we have this book

448
00:18:43,919 --> 00:18:41,109
where you're exploring the science

449
00:18:46,349 --> 00:18:43,929
behind there possibly being in afterlife

450
00:18:47,729 --> 00:18:46,359
or past lives and the idea of

451
00:18:50,070 --> 00:18:47,739
consciousness so I guess

452
00:18:52,799 --> 00:18:50,080
Leslie for those like me who are so

453
00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:52,809
simple-minded that we think it's heaven

454
00:18:57,210 --> 00:18:54,850
they're just coming back to talk to you

455
00:19:01,169 --> 00:18:57,220
like that's what it is sort of in a

456
00:19:03,509 --> 00:19:01,179
religious way I would say what what is

457
00:19:06,389 --> 00:19:03,519
the book about that's a huge general

458
00:19:09,499 --> 00:19:06,399
question but what what were you trying

459
00:19:12,419 --> 00:19:09,509
to to bring to the table when it came to

460
00:19:14,099 --> 00:19:12,429
covering the afterlife yeah I mean I

461
00:19:15,450 --> 00:19:14,109
don't even think of it as the afterlife

462
00:19:16,979 --> 00:19:15,460
away I didn't even like it's in the

463
00:19:18,749 --> 00:19:16,989
subtitle of the book a journalist

464
00:19:20,999 --> 00:19:18,759
investigates evidence for an afterlife

465
00:19:22,830 --> 00:19:21,009
yeah he tried to me and my publisher we

466
00:19:25,409 --> 00:19:22,840
tried so hard to find other language for

467
00:19:26,759 --> 00:19:25,419
it was just impossible so I don't even I

468
00:19:28,979 --> 00:19:26,769
don't know doesn't even like that word

469
00:19:30,659 --> 00:19:28,989
that much it's more about the fact that

470
00:19:32,639 --> 00:19:30,669
consciousness as Mike said you know

471
00:19:33,749 --> 00:19:32,649
there's first of all the first part of

472
00:19:35,700 --> 00:19:33,759
the book explores the fact that

473
00:19:38,999 --> 00:19:35,710
consciousness is obviously something

474
00:19:40,289 --> 00:19:39,009
that can function independently but

475
00:19:42,060 --> 00:19:40,299
there's a lot of evidence that shows

476
00:19:45,330 --> 00:19:42,070
that it can function independently of a

477
00:19:47,279 --> 00:19:45,340
brain so if indeed once you can

478
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:47,289
establish that which I believe I

479
00:19:50,820 --> 00:19:48,850
established that because based on the

480
00:19:52,049 --> 00:19:50,830
search in the book then the question

481
00:19:54,419 --> 00:19:52,059
becomes when the body completely

482
00:19:57,239 --> 00:19:54,429
disappears does the same thing happen

483
00:19:59,489 --> 00:19:57,249
and it's a very reasonable question to

484
00:20:01,169 --> 00:19:59,499
ask when you look at the data for the

485
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:01,179
fact that it can function separately

486
00:20:05,669 --> 00:20:03,970
from the body so then the reason is it's

487
00:20:08,220 --> 00:20:05,679
really when you talk about heaven and

488
00:20:09,710 --> 00:20:08,230
stuff it's not about any belief systems

489
00:20:12,749 --> 00:20:09,720
I wanted to write a book that explored

490
00:20:14,909 --> 00:20:12,759
hardcore evidence for this that would

491
00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:14,919
not it's not depend on any belief

492
00:20:18,810 --> 00:20:16,570
systems or religions I mean it's just

493
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:18,820
there's there's no talk of God or heaven

494
00:20:23,729 --> 00:20:21,850
or any systems of belief in this it's

495
00:20:25,649 --> 00:20:23,739
about is there evidence for it

496
00:20:27,330 --> 00:20:25,659
physically men you know that it happens

497
00:20:29,519 --> 00:20:27,340
it doesn't matter what the belief

498
00:20:32,580 --> 00:20:29,529
systems are so I also don't think it's

499
00:20:34,349 --> 00:20:32,590
more of it because if this is showing us

500
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:34,359
that we're gonna have a wonderful time

501
00:20:37,470 --> 00:20:35,170
after

502
00:20:39,630 --> 00:20:37,480
Diane were actually not gonna die that's

503
00:20:41,610 --> 00:20:39,640
pretty exciting and positive and it

504
00:20:44,190 --> 00:20:41,620
takes a lot of the fear out of dying so

505
00:20:46,290 --> 00:20:44,200
it actually takes away that sense that

506
00:20:49,950 --> 00:20:46,300
people have of this morbidity or this

507
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:49,960
finality or this horror of dying maybe

508
00:20:54,570 --> 00:20:52,930
dying isn't fun when you're actually

509
00:20:56,550 --> 00:20:54,580
gone what if you get to go somewhere

510
00:20:58,830 --> 00:20:56,560
that's really beautiful and even better

511
00:21:00,630 --> 00:20:58,840
than this or this system you have here

512
00:21:02,850 --> 00:21:00,640
so it's it's opening the door to that

513
00:21:05,990 --> 00:21:02,860
possibility not based on any belief

514
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:06,000
systems based on actual research and

515
00:21:11,130 --> 00:21:08,530
experiences by very credible people I

516
00:21:13,380 --> 00:21:11,140
just watched the show the good place

517
00:21:16,230 --> 00:21:13,390
uh-huh you know which is about these

518
00:21:18,410 --> 00:21:16,240
these for humans who who pass and it's

519
00:21:20,970 --> 00:21:18,420
about their you know their their

520
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:20,980
experience in the afterlife it's a great

521
00:21:25,050 --> 00:21:22,330
show it's on you can watch it on Netflix

522
00:21:27,420 --> 00:21:25,060
but one of the lead characters at one

523
00:21:29,130 --> 00:21:27,430
point is talking to an immortal being on

524
00:21:32,340 --> 00:21:29,140
the other side trying to explain what

525
00:21:34,950 --> 00:21:32,350
it's like to be a human and she says you

526
00:21:38,630 --> 00:21:34,960
know we're all aware of death so we're

527
00:21:41,430 --> 00:21:38,640
all a little bit sad all the time and

528
00:21:43,530 --> 00:21:41,440
that can really be true in my own life I

529
00:21:46,110 --> 00:21:43,540
remember being a young kid and I love my

530
00:21:48,060 --> 00:21:46,120
parents so much and you know we've lost

531
00:21:50,580 --> 00:21:48,070
a goldfish and a puppy and everything

532
00:21:53,190 --> 00:21:50,590
and I remember the topic was on my mind

533
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:53,200
from a young age I was very worried

534
00:21:57,360 --> 00:21:55,090
about losing my parents when I was young

535
00:21:59,220 --> 00:21:57,370
and and and now now that I did lose my

536
00:22:01,260 --> 00:21:59,230
dad at a rather young age that led me on

537
00:22:04,650 --> 00:22:01,270
this whole journey you know I see sort

538
00:22:06,360 --> 00:22:04,660
of a connective tissue there that I was

539
00:22:07,710 --> 00:22:06,370
worried about it well before my dad

540
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:07,720
passed when I was a little kid I was

541
00:22:11,010 --> 00:22:09,490
specifically worried about losing him

542
00:22:13,380 --> 00:22:11,020
for some reason when I was young but

543
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:13,390
anyway so that's kind of true right we

544
00:22:17,490 --> 00:22:14,890
all know about death so we're all a

545
00:22:18,660 --> 00:22:17,500
little bit sad all the time then what if

546
00:22:21,210 --> 00:22:18,670
there's something out there that can

547
00:22:24,630 --> 00:22:21,220
sort of mitigate that sadness and as

548
00:22:26,790 --> 00:22:24,640
Leslie just said from what I gather from

549
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:26,800
her book and the evidence out there

550
00:22:35,490 --> 00:22:31,570
there is a lot to suggest that my dad

551
00:22:38,510 --> 00:22:35,500
did not simply disappear when his heart

552
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:38,520
stops beating that some part of his of

553
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:42,970
who he was is still around that it's

554
00:22:49,169 --> 00:22:46,330
somehow kept going and is paying

555
00:22:51,570 --> 00:22:49,179
attention in some way to my life I mean

556
00:22:54,149 --> 00:22:51,580
is evidence as far as I can tell

557
00:22:57,450 --> 00:22:54,159
suggesting that's true no in terms of

558
00:22:59,039 --> 00:22:57,460
evidence I mean that's cuz I could share

559
00:23:01,049 --> 00:22:59,049
with you how I initially got into this

560
00:23:03,389 --> 00:23:01,059
we used to get about like yeah because I

561
00:23:05,399 --> 00:23:03,399
moved through the book in to more of an

562
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:05,409
experiential realm of just and I did a

563
00:23:09,719 --> 00:23:07,330
lot of stuff of mediumship which mike

564
00:23:11,789 --> 00:23:09,729
has already touched on there but what

565
00:23:16,139 --> 00:23:11,799
got me initially interested in this was

566
00:23:20,039 --> 00:23:16,149
these cases of young children say

567
00:23:22,469 --> 00:23:20,049
between the ages of 2 & 3 who talk about

568
00:23:24,419 --> 00:23:22,479
a past life that they say they have with

569
00:23:28,169 --> 00:23:24,429
such specificity that they'll give maybe

570
00:23:30,149 --> 00:23:28,179
10 different specific points about it so

571
00:23:31,889 --> 00:23:30,159
that investigators are able to locate

572
00:23:34,649 --> 00:23:31,899
the person that they actually were in

573
00:23:36,450 --> 00:23:34,659
that past life and verify that all the

574
00:23:38,999 --> 00:23:36,460
things that child remembered were true

575
00:23:41,219 --> 00:23:39,009
and there's at the University of

576
00:23:42,959 --> 00:23:41,229
Virginia they are studying there's a

577
00:23:44,879 --> 00:23:42,969
thing of something called the department

578
00:23:46,229 --> 00:23:44,889
of perceptual studies where a deficient

579
00:23:47,789 --> 00:23:46,239
I think it's the division of G what is

580
00:23:49,619 --> 00:23:47,799
it the division leads exceptional sense

581
00:23:53,669 --> 00:23:49,629
yeah thank you yeah just cuz Jim Tucker

582
00:23:57,589 --> 00:23:53,679
corrected me on that tell you to work

583
00:24:02,249 --> 00:24:00,359
there was a psychiatrist there named Ian

584
00:24:04,019 --> 00:24:02,259
Stevenson who's studied these cases for

585
00:24:06,539 --> 00:24:04,029
decades and wrote volumes of lies of

586
00:24:08,639 --> 00:24:06,549
case studies and and fascinated by them

587
00:24:10,799 --> 00:24:08,649
and his work has been taken over by Jim

588
00:24:12,659 --> 00:24:10,809
Tucker who might just mentioned who's

589
00:24:15,719 --> 00:24:12,669
also he's a child psychiatrist and they

590
00:24:18,209 --> 00:24:15,729
have two to 2,500 cases in their data

591
00:24:19,409 --> 00:24:18,219
file database not all and but the

592
00:24:21,509 --> 00:24:19,419
interesting ones are the ones that are

593
00:24:23,669 --> 00:24:21,519
solved there's hundreds of them in which

594
00:24:25,259 --> 00:24:23,679
you are able to verify that the memories

595
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:25,269
were accurate so when you have a young

596
00:24:30,450 --> 00:24:28,450
child who gives you the names of very

597
00:24:33,539 --> 00:24:30,460
specific names and all kinds of stuff

598
00:24:34,889 --> 00:24:33,549
like that and then you can say well we

599
00:24:36,419 --> 00:24:34,899
found the person who they were you go

600
00:24:38,909 --> 00:24:36,429
back to that person's family and you can

601
00:24:41,940 --> 00:24:38,919
verify everything it's a pretty good

602
00:24:44,430 --> 00:24:41,950
argument for the reality of rebirth or

603
00:24:47,219 --> 00:24:44,440
reincarnation because it's very hard to

604
00:24:49,709 --> 00:24:47,229
explain it any other way and so I was

605
00:24:51,329 --> 00:24:49,719
drawn into this really through that door

606
00:24:53,909 --> 00:24:51,339
because I found those they were so

607
00:24:56,339 --> 00:24:53,919
concrete those cases yeah you know what

608
00:24:59,190 --> 00:24:56,349
they said you make sure that it was on

609
00:25:00,930 --> 00:24:59,200
the record before any investigation took

610
00:25:02,430 --> 00:25:00,940
place so that you know that the parents

611
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:02,440
didn't embellish it or decide

612
00:25:07,889 --> 00:25:04,570
to make things up to you know it's all

613
00:25:11,249 --> 00:25:07,899
got to be reported before anybody steps

614
00:25:12,629 --> 00:25:11,259
in to look into it and if so much that

615
00:25:14,700 --> 00:25:12,639
goes along with it in terms of the

616
00:25:15,990 --> 00:25:14,710
emotional condition of the child and

617
00:25:18,389 --> 00:25:16,000
they have nightmares about the previous

618
00:25:19,649 --> 00:25:18,399
staff and their obsessions with things

619
00:25:21,690 --> 00:25:19,659
that they were interested in the

620
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:21,700
previous life all this kind of stuff

621
00:25:27,779 --> 00:25:24,730
that this whole package right a sedating

622
00:25:31,740 --> 00:25:27,789
yeah this this line of inquiry alone the

623
00:25:33,869 --> 00:25:31,750
evidence is so profound that Jim Tucker

624
00:25:35,460 --> 00:25:33,879
told me I went down to the University of

625
00:25:37,889 --> 00:25:35,470
Virginia to interview him because like

626
00:25:41,820 --> 00:25:37,899
Leslie this this topic in particular

627
00:25:44,009 --> 00:25:41,830
really got my attention early on and he

628
00:25:45,990 --> 00:25:44,019
said that you know when the Journal of

629
00:25:47,220 --> 00:25:46,000
the American Medical Association right

630
00:25:49,169 --> 00:25:47,230
that's one of the most respected

631
00:25:51,570 --> 00:25:49,179
peer-reviewed scientific journals in the

632
00:25:54,169 --> 00:25:51,580
world when they took a look at the

633
00:25:57,899 --> 00:25:54,179
evidence their conclusion was that

634
00:26:03,029 --> 00:25:57,909
reincarnation was the most likely answer

635
00:26:04,889 --> 00:26:03,039
and I said what JAMA said what why isn't

636
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:04,899
why doesn't everyone know that why

637
00:26:09,570 --> 00:26:07,570
wasn't that on the nightly news that one

638
00:26:11,549 --> 00:26:09,580
of the most respected scientific

639
00:26:13,590 --> 00:26:11,559
journals in the world concluded based on

640
00:26:15,029 --> 00:26:13,600
your research here at the division of

641
00:26:16,940 --> 00:26:15,039
perceptual studies which has been going

642
00:26:19,619 --> 00:26:16,950
on for they do something an activity is

643
00:26:21,990 --> 00:26:19,629
50th anniversary I mean that's how

644
00:26:23,460 --> 00:26:22,000
striking the evidence is you know

645
00:26:24,869 --> 00:26:23,470
they're just covering the very basics of

646
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:24,879
these here but I recommend people look

647
00:26:29,610 --> 00:26:27,610
into the stories what's the I covered

648
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:29,620
two cases in my book being early s and

649
00:26:33,060 --> 00:26:31,090
in both American cases and they're both

650
00:26:35,519 --> 00:26:33,070
fairly recent cuz a lot of the original

651
00:26:37,649 --> 00:26:35,529
er studies were of course Asian you know

652
00:26:39,450 --> 00:26:37,659
cases in India and Burma and places were

653
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:39,460
it's part of the culture to accept this

654
00:26:45,659 --> 00:26:43,690
in terms of like Buddhism it's just

655
00:26:47,490 --> 00:26:45,669
accepted part of the culture that's

656
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:47,500
currently religions that these things

657
00:26:50,909 --> 00:26:49,450
happen it's not strange so that people

658
00:26:51,930 --> 00:26:50,919
talking about here if you have the kid

659
00:26:54,799 --> 00:26:51,940
who's talking about the past life I

660
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:54,809
think honey let's not not at parties

661
00:26:59,000 --> 00:26:57,090
no more serious now if they're told that

662
00:27:01,220 --> 00:26:59,010
they're just fantasizing you're dreaming

663
00:27:03,409 --> 00:27:01,230
or something and yes so when you have

664
00:27:05,149 --> 00:27:03,419
cases in America that have come actually

665
00:27:06,620 --> 00:27:05,159
been we've actually been able to solve

666
00:27:09,230 --> 00:27:06,630
them which means to find the previous

667
00:27:11,029 --> 00:27:09,240
personality and verify it it's pretty

668
00:27:12,860 --> 00:27:11,039
stunning and these cases were both

669
00:27:15,620 --> 00:27:12,870
remarkable I'm gonna talk about this at

670
00:27:17,899 --> 00:27:15,630
the contact and the desert thing oh okay

671
00:27:19,669 --> 00:27:17,909
especially yeah some of these cases cuz

672
00:27:21,590 --> 00:27:19,679
they're they're really stunning well let

673
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:21,600
me ask you guys this in your in your

674
00:27:28,190 --> 00:27:25,650
research why why do you think it's kids

675
00:27:29,750 --> 00:27:28,200
well what's input I mean what's the

676
00:27:31,220 --> 00:27:29,760
reason it's important that it's kids

677
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:31,230
yeah reason those are the important

678
00:27:35,539 --> 00:27:33,570
cases to focus on is because those

679
00:27:37,250 --> 00:27:35,549
children have not been around to have

680
00:27:39,169 --> 00:27:37,260
any any other information coming to

681
00:27:40,610 --> 00:27:39,179
their brain they've been protect they

682
00:27:41,899 --> 00:27:40,620
just been with their parents basically

683
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:41,909
so the parents stop everything they've

684
00:27:46,490 --> 00:27:44,250
been exposed to and it makes it much

685
00:27:48,830 --> 00:27:46,500
more hard to explain when a two-year-old

686
00:27:51,470 --> 00:27:48,840
starts talking about different types of

687
00:27:53,750 --> 00:27:51,480
World War two aircraft for instance

688
00:27:55,430 --> 00:27:53,760
because he remember being a pilot of

689
00:27:57,140 --> 00:27:55,440
doing this like when he's never been

690
00:27:59,149 --> 00:27:57,150
exposed to anything like that now if a

691
00:28:01,220 --> 00:27:59,159
21 year old starts talking about that

692
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:01,230
even if they say I've never been exposed

693
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:03,210
to before you know any number of

694
00:28:06,980 --> 00:28:04,650
influences could have come into their

695
00:28:09,799 --> 00:28:06,990
mind so when you have a little child

696
00:28:12,140 --> 00:28:09,809
that's what so evidential about it

697
00:28:14,510 --> 00:28:12,150
coming out with these things that they

698
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:14,520
couldn't possibly ever know at that age

699
00:28:18,830 --> 00:28:17,250
like two years old yeah yeah this this

700
00:28:19,909 --> 00:28:18,840
little James Leininger this case was two

701
00:28:21,919 --> 00:28:19,919
years then he was talking about the

702
00:28:24,470 --> 00:28:21,929
names of a different types of aircraft

703
00:28:26,419 --> 00:28:24,480
of ship name that he flew off of in the

704
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:26,429
Battle of Iwo Jima you know

705
00:28:31,220 --> 00:28:28,770
and he would talk about like in his pen

706
00:28:32,919 --> 00:28:31,230
and have nightmares about a plane crash

707
00:28:35,539 --> 00:28:32,929
and all this stuff it's just you know

708
00:28:37,430 --> 00:28:35,549
just and the parents get really freaked

709
00:28:39,649 --> 00:28:37,440
out of course really hard for them

710
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:39,659
because their child is something they're

711
00:28:43,490 --> 00:28:41,730
often you know obsessed with things and

712
00:28:45,830 --> 00:28:43,500
it just I mean it depends like every

713
00:28:47,060 --> 00:28:45,840
case is different but anyway keeps the

714
00:28:49,130 --> 00:28:47,070
kids that's why I think the most

715
00:28:50,810 --> 00:28:49,140
evidential cases for reincarnation by

716
00:28:52,909 --> 00:28:50,820
far are the ones where these little

717
00:28:54,620 --> 00:28:52,919
children do this right so it's not those

718
00:28:56,390 --> 00:28:54,630
that go into regression do hypnotic

719
00:28:58,130 --> 00:28:56,400
regression or something you know it's

720
00:29:00,620 --> 00:28:58,140
interesting but it's not the same level

721
00:29:02,390 --> 00:29:00,630
of in terms of evidence so it's not so

722
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:02,400
much that adults aren't having these

723
00:29:06,950 --> 00:29:05,010
past life right what

724
00:29:09,050 --> 00:29:06,960
the kids same way that have the most

725
00:29:11,210 --> 00:29:09,060
verifiable it has applicable what it is

726
00:29:12,590 --> 00:29:11,220
also is that almost all of these kids

727
00:29:14,660 --> 00:29:12,600
almost a hundred percent of them there

728
00:29:15,890 --> 00:29:14,670
are some exceptions completely forget

729
00:29:17,810 --> 00:29:15,900
the memories by the time they're about

730
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:17,820
eight years old really yeah they stopped

731
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:20,370
having access to the memories most of

732
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:22,530
them again there are exceptions to that

733
00:29:27,260 --> 00:29:25,770
that we know of but yeah most of them

734
00:29:30,230 --> 00:29:27,270
forget so it seemed that would suggest

735
00:29:31,850 --> 00:29:30,240
to me that it somehow has something to

736
00:29:32,510 --> 00:29:31,860
do with the development of the brain you

737
00:29:35,030 --> 00:29:32,520
know does the brain is changing

738
00:29:37,930 --> 00:29:35,040
obviously as you're growing and at some

739
00:29:40,940 --> 00:29:37,940
point for whatever reason something

740
00:29:42,460 --> 00:29:40,950
stops these memories from from happening

741
00:29:44,540 --> 00:29:42,470
so I speculate that it could be

742
00:29:46,580 --> 00:29:44,550
something about the structure the

743
00:29:49,090 --> 00:29:46,590
changing structure of the brain that no

744
00:29:53,030 --> 00:29:49,100
longer once it reaches a certain point

745
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:53,040
in its growth process for some reason

746
00:29:57,020 --> 00:29:55,050
that antenna for lack of a better word

747
00:29:59,390 --> 00:29:57,030
seems to no longer pick up that

748
00:30:01,460 --> 00:29:59,400
frequency or whatever it is that's going

749
00:30:02,990 --> 00:30:01,470
on so that's why it's kids that better

750
00:30:05,540 --> 00:30:03,000
we focus on because they we just forget

751
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:05,550
most get most most of the kids forget

752
00:30:09,530 --> 00:30:07,890
and also I would assume kids are them

753
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:09,540
gonna be the most honest with you

754
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:11,610
there's no baggage there's no

755
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:13,770
preconceived notions of what it could be

756
00:30:17,420 --> 00:30:15,570
what it couldn't be you can't make stuff

757
00:30:18,620 --> 00:30:17,430
up exactly I mean you can't make up the

758
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:18,630
name of the battleship it's either

759
00:30:22,010 --> 00:30:20,730
exists or it doesn't you pick it up you

760
00:30:24,140 --> 00:30:22,020
know and then they couldn't possibly

761
00:30:26,900 --> 00:30:24,150
have known it did okay by the way was

762
00:30:29,090 --> 00:30:26,910
the Natoma Bay so it wasn't like you

763
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:29,100
know that this you know some simple name

764
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:30,690
right I was like it what was the name of

765
00:30:34,220 --> 00:30:32,010
the battleship and he said the Natoma

766
00:30:36,350 --> 00:30:34,230
and his dad thought that sounds that

767
00:30:37,700 --> 00:30:36,360
sounds Japanese it sounded to his dad so

768
00:30:39,550 --> 00:30:37,710
so he thought it must be a mistake

769
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:39,560
but he came if I know there sure was a

770
00:30:48,830 --> 00:30:46,050
battleship called the yeah yeah yeah

771
00:30:50,030 --> 00:30:48,840
sorry I'm so ignorant you don't want to

772
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:50,040
say you know some of the other the

773
00:30:55,550 --> 00:30:52,290
evidences as Leslie said incredibly

774
00:30:58,400 --> 00:30:55,560
specific to the point that in hundreds

775
00:31:00,470 --> 00:30:58,410
of job the cases at the University of

776
00:31:02,390 --> 00:31:00,480
Virginia they've been able to locate who

777
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:02,400
the person is so the kids given either

778
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:05,130
an address or a family name you know

779
00:31:11,380 --> 00:31:07,410
something that allows them to and in the

780
00:31:14,450 --> 00:31:11,390
most fascinating of the cases there are

781
00:31:16,790 --> 00:31:14,460
physiological aspects involved so the

782
00:31:18,330 --> 00:31:16,800
the kid will have some sort of either a

783
00:31:20,730 --> 00:31:18,340
birth defect

784
00:31:23,669 --> 00:31:20,740
or a birthmark of some kind that

785
00:31:26,310 --> 00:31:23,679
corresponds to how the previous person

786
00:31:28,049 --> 00:31:26,320
died hmm so and when I'm in a great case

787
00:31:29,370 --> 00:31:28,059
that happened here in New York Leslie

788
00:31:30,630 --> 00:31:29,380
you probably remember they were the

789
00:31:33,210 --> 00:31:30,640
police officer do you remember this

790
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:33,220
there's a police officer who was shot

791
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:37,210
through his heart and he died and his

792
00:31:43,529 --> 00:31:39,970
grandson when he was born at very young

793
00:31:46,980 --> 00:31:43,539
2 years old started saying that he was

794
00:31:49,110 --> 00:31:46,990
his mom's father this guy who was shot

795
00:31:52,919 --> 00:31:49,120
and he had memories he said I was shot I

796
00:31:55,769 --> 00:31:52,929
was killed and he remembered the

797
00:31:58,019 --> 00:31:55,779
circumstances of the way his grandfather

798
00:32:01,710 --> 00:31:58,029
had passed and not only that he had a

799
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:01,720
congenital heart defect that he had to

800
00:32:06,899 --> 00:32:04,330
have this operation for that correspond

801
00:32:07,950 --> 00:32:06,909
to you know the the way that the

802
00:32:09,779 --> 00:32:07,960
grandfather died he had been shot

803
00:32:12,419 --> 00:32:09,789
through the heart there are cases where

804
00:32:14,130 --> 00:32:12,429
you know there's a birthmark on the

805
00:32:16,049 --> 00:32:14,140
front of a person in the back say and

806
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:16,059
the one on the front is sort of small

807
00:32:21,090 --> 00:32:17,890
and a little more regular and the one on

808
00:32:22,950 --> 00:32:21,100
the back is bigger and irregular and

809
00:32:24,419 --> 00:32:22,960
when they find the previous personality

810
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:24,429
they find out that they've been shot

811
00:32:28,830 --> 00:32:27,250
from through the chest and the entrance

812
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:28,840
wound you know they have in the best

813
00:32:32,549 --> 00:32:30,850
cases we have autopsy reports we have

814
00:32:35,070 --> 00:32:32,559
them photographs where we can match up

815
00:32:37,980 --> 00:32:35,080
the the photographs from the autopsy

816
00:32:40,409 --> 00:32:37,990
report to the the places on the kids

817
00:32:42,810 --> 00:32:40,419
body where the birthmarks are so it's

818
00:32:44,370 --> 00:32:42,820
not just kids having memories it's there

819
00:32:47,430 --> 00:32:44,380
there are other aspects to it as well

820
00:32:49,980 --> 00:32:47,440
you know I guess moving a little away

821
00:32:52,019 --> 00:32:49,990
from past life a lot of the other

822
00:32:54,149 --> 00:32:52,029
evidence that you've explored Leslie is

823
00:32:55,950 --> 00:32:54,159
the idea of mediumship I mean you said

824
00:32:59,370 --> 00:32:55,960
yourself that's what kind of got you

825
00:33:02,330 --> 00:32:59,380
into this no in terms of that who are

826
00:33:05,700 --> 00:33:02,340
why do you think certain people are

827
00:33:07,740 --> 00:33:05,710
chosen to be these conduits for what

828
00:33:11,730 --> 00:33:07,750
could possibly be someone in the

829
00:33:15,570 --> 00:33:11,740
afterlife or are more sensitive to that

830
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:15,580
is there any type of prerequisite for

831
00:33:21,060 --> 00:33:18,850
being a medium I guess I mean in my

832
00:33:23,639 --> 00:33:21,070
experience the ones the really good ones

833
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:23,649
are born with this sensitivity okay

834
00:33:28,860 --> 00:33:26,890
the two that I you know went to see that

835
00:33:31,169 --> 00:33:28,870
I talk about in my book incredible

836
00:33:32,159 --> 00:33:31,179
readings that I had with both they had

837
00:33:34,970 --> 00:33:32,169
all kinds of experiences

838
00:33:36,899 --> 00:33:34,980
as kids seeing dead people you know just

839
00:33:38,639 --> 00:33:36,909
sensitivities they knew when someone was

840
00:33:39,060 --> 00:33:38,649
gonna die and their family that kind of

841
00:33:40,950 --> 00:33:39,070
thing

842
00:33:42,779 --> 00:33:40,960
and in the beginning they often think

843
00:33:44,279 --> 00:33:42,789
it's normal that everybody has these

844
00:33:46,830 --> 00:33:44,289
abilities until they learn that that

845
00:33:49,139 --> 00:33:46,840
it's not as they grow older and then

846
00:33:50,729 --> 00:33:49,149
there might come a time during

847
00:33:52,499 --> 00:33:50,739
adolescence where they don't want to be

848
00:33:54,149 --> 00:33:52,509
different from anybody so they this

849
00:33:55,830 --> 00:33:54,159
happened so long where they they sort of

850
00:33:58,019 --> 00:33:55,840
turned it off for a while but it's a

851
00:33:59,820 --> 00:33:58,029
latent ability that they have and I

852
00:34:03,149 --> 00:33:59,830
don't know I mean it even runs in some

853
00:34:06,029 --> 00:34:03,159
families Laurel and Jacksons have family

854
00:34:07,289 --> 00:34:06,039
history of this so you know it's I don't

855
00:34:09,359 --> 00:34:07,299
know if anybody can really say for sure

856
00:34:11,639 --> 00:34:09,369
like why some people would have and why

857
00:34:13,919 --> 00:34:11,649
they don't but I I do think that it's

858
00:34:15,389 --> 00:34:13,929
something sort of innate that that they

859
00:34:18,240 --> 00:34:15,399
really if they're really good at it that

860
00:34:19,260 --> 00:34:18,250
they've had for a long time but you know

861
00:34:21,270 --> 00:34:19,270
it's different for everyone

862
00:34:22,740 --> 00:34:21,280
or they might not even realize it until

863
00:34:25,710 --> 00:34:22,750
they're older that they have the ability

864
00:34:28,530 --> 00:34:25,720
but I don't think there's any way to say

865
00:34:29,970 --> 00:34:28,540
why one person has another dozen you

866
00:34:32,460 --> 00:34:29,980
know going back to the interview you you

867
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:32,470
guys just did with let with Leslie and

868
00:34:37,230 --> 00:34:33,970
Diana you were talking at the end there

869
00:34:39,619 --> 00:34:37,240
about the experiencers of the of the you

870
00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:39,629
know UFO phenomenon how some people can

871
00:34:45,930 --> 00:34:44,169
proceed to be more prone to seeing these

872
00:34:47,190 --> 00:34:45,940
things than other people and you were

873
00:34:50,210 --> 00:34:47,200
saying that maybe there is something

874
00:34:52,980 --> 00:34:50,220
about their brain right that makes this

875
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:52,990
possible and maybe that's a similar

876
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:54,490
thing it's an interesting phenomenon

877
00:34:58,109 --> 00:34:56,290
okay definitely the mediumship thing

878
00:35:00,059 --> 00:34:58,119
yeah and I also didn't have a

879
00:35:02,609 --> 00:35:00,069
opportunity to sort of test it the same

880
00:35:04,620 --> 00:35:02,619
way that Mike did and it was amazing

881
00:35:06,420 --> 00:35:04,630
you know I mean we're trying would you

882
00:35:09,539 --> 00:35:06,430
mind sharing because I read about in the

883
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:09,549
book my first reading was with a medium

884
00:35:13,559 --> 00:35:11,770
in Laurel and Jackson and I've never and

885
00:35:15,839 --> 00:35:13,569
this was so when I got to the point in

886
00:35:17,130 --> 00:35:15,849
my in my investigation of realizing that

887
00:35:18,510 --> 00:35:17,140
there's a lot of evidence for

888
00:35:21,210 --> 00:35:18,520
consciousness to function independently

889
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:21,220
the body then the question immediately

890
00:35:25,020 --> 00:35:23,170
in Rose me well if that's the case then

891
00:35:26,789 --> 00:35:25,030
can we communicate with this

892
00:35:29,039 --> 00:35:26,799
consciousness when it is not in the body

893
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:29,049
is that another way of verifying it or

894
00:35:33,030 --> 00:35:31,210
just out of curiosity well Wow can we

895
00:35:35,099 --> 00:35:33,040
communicate with it in that state and

896
00:35:37,589 --> 00:35:35,109
the weight of one way to approach that

897
00:35:40,530 --> 00:35:37,599
question is to to study mediumship which

898
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:40,540
is basically that persons serving a sort

899
00:35:44,650 --> 00:35:43,210
of a telephone operator for somebody who

900
00:35:46,270 --> 00:35:44,660
wants to contact someone on

901
00:35:49,390 --> 00:35:46,280
the other side and so that's what they

902
00:35:51,910 --> 00:35:49,400
do so yes they are communiqué are

903
00:35:55,599 --> 00:35:51,920
apparently delivering information from a

904
00:35:58,059 --> 00:35:55,609
disembodied consciousness to a person so

905
00:36:00,520 --> 00:35:58,069
you go to that medium and in my first

906
00:36:02,140 --> 00:36:00,530
reading it was on the phone so you don't

907
00:36:04,359 --> 00:36:02,150
know what it looked like they did enough

908
00:36:06,339 --> 00:36:04,369
visual cues or anything like that with

909
00:36:09,900 --> 00:36:06,349
this amazing medium named Laurel and

910
00:36:12,819 --> 00:36:09,910
Jackson and she just delivered

911
00:36:16,180 --> 00:36:12,829
unbelievably specific information you

912
00:36:17,559 --> 00:36:16,190
know which of from two people one of

913
00:36:20,380 --> 00:36:17,569
them was Budd Hopkins the UFO

914
00:36:22,210 --> 00:36:20,390
investigator I was very close to and I

915
00:36:24,940 --> 00:36:22,220
was actually with him when he died in

916
00:36:28,299 --> 00:36:24,950
2011 and the second one was my brother

917
00:36:29,950 --> 00:36:28,309
who acts appear e'en expectedly in 2013

918
00:36:32,289 --> 00:36:29,960
when I was required was writing this

919
00:36:34,450 --> 00:36:32,299
book my younger brother so that was

920
00:36:36,339 --> 00:36:34,460
really tragic but it was incredible

921
00:36:37,809 --> 00:36:36,349
because I ended up it ended up opening a

922
00:36:40,510 --> 00:36:37,819
lot of doors for me not just with

923
00:36:42,700 --> 00:36:40,520
mediumship but in other ways too so they

924
00:36:44,079 --> 00:36:42,710
both were there and I mean I'm not gonna

925
00:36:46,690 --> 00:36:44,089
go into all specifics because it would

926
00:36:48,849 --> 00:36:46,700
take forever but just you know the

927
00:36:50,380 --> 00:36:48,859
ability to identify that people not just

928
00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:50,390
do with information but also through

929
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:52,730
their personalities you know that these

930
00:36:55,930 --> 00:36:54,770
two people had opposite personalities

931
00:36:57,430 --> 00:36:55,940
and that also came through in the

932
00:36:59,140 --> 00:36:57,440
reading there's just a lot of stuff

933
00:37:01,690 --> 00:36:59,150
there's no way she could have known

934
00:37:03,849 --> 00:37:01,700
who's particularly my brother who was

935
00:37:05,319 --> 00:37:03,859
nobody knows anything about I mean but

936
00:37:06,940 --> 00:37:05,329
as a public figure but she would have

937
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:06,950
had to look them up which she doesn't do

938
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:09,650
so the interest is but in terms of the

939
00:37:14,230 --> 00:37:12,170
testing thing so there were two things

940
00:37:15,870 --> 00:37:14,240
my each of them said each of them said

941
00:37:18,339 --> 00:37:15,880
something to me that was very personal

942
00:37:19,980 --> 00:37:18,349
so I when I wouldn't do my second

943
00:37:22,359 --> 00:37:19,990
reading about two months later I

944
00:37:25,029 --> 00:37:22,369
meditated and asked these two people

945
00:37:26,319 --> 00:37:25,039
bottom my brother to repeat what

946
00:37:27,670 --> 00:37:26,329
something they had said to me in the

947
00:37:30,220 --> 00:37:27,680
first reading with the second reading I

948
00:37:31,870 --> 00:37:30,230
said if this is really you I want you to

949
00:37:34,059 --> 00:37:31,880
repeat something in the second reading

950
00:37:35,620 --> 00:37:34,069
that you said in the first one I don't

951
00:37:38,980 --> 00:37:35,630
care what it is because they said a lot

952
00:37:41,410 --> 00:37:38,990
and I had I never thought it would ever

953
00:37:43,930 --> 00:37:41,420
happen I just thought it's a lark I'll

954
00:37:45,490 --> 00:37:43,940
just test this and if it doesn't work I

955
00:37:47,289 --> 00:37:45,500
never have to tell anybody about it you

956
00:37:49,059 --> 00:37:47,299
know whatever why not

957
00:37:50,500 --> 00:37:49,069
so I just really earnestly asked them

958
00:37:52,450 --> 00:37:50,510
and then it happened I had the second

959
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:52,460
reading with a medium who didn't even

960
00:37:58,089 --> 00:37:55,130
know my name because I I signed up with

961
00:37:59,769 --> 00:37:58,099
her with a fake name it was on sky

962
00:38:03,670 --> 00:37:59,779
so she did see what I look like but and

963
00:38:06,219 --> 00:38:03,680
both of them repeated the most personal

964
00:38:08,109 --> 00:38:06,229
most evidential thing they said to me

965
00:38:10,839 --> 00:38:08,119
from the first reading in the exact same

966
00:38:13,029 --> 00:38:10,849
word and you know when that happens to

967
00:38:15,039 --> 00:38:13,039
you it's like what happened to Mike you

968
00:38:17,410 --> 00:38:15,049
just your jaw drops open and it's a

969
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:17,420
moment of transcendence it's a moment of

970
00:38:22,059 --> 00:38:19,970
as he said a shift in paradigm will you

971
00:38:24,219 --> 00:38:22,069
just suddenly think oh my god you know

972
00:38:26,829 --> 00:38:24,229
and you're in an altered state really

973
00:38:30,339 --> 00:38:26,839
with that for a while because it shifts

974
00:38:32,859 --> 00:38:30,349
your whole perception of reality that

975
00:38:35,799 --> 00:38:32,869
happened this beat happened it how can I

976
00:38:38,170 --> 00:38:35,809
communicate with them I mean how else

977
00:38:39,539 --> 00:38:38,180
could that happen unless there was a

978
00:38:41,890 --> 00:38:39,549
whole lot of very sophisticated

979
00:38:43,779 --> 00:38:41,900
telepathy and clairvoyance going on with

980
00:38:45,370 --> 00:38:43,789
these two mediums they didn't know each

981
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:45,380
other they'd never spoken to each other

982
00:38:50,170 --> 00:38:48,410
I made sure of that so once you know you

983
00:38:51,910 --> 00:38:50,180
have these moments and then of course

984
00:38:54,339 --> 00:38:51,920
and what I did with these ratings too

985
00:38:55,989 --> 00:38:54,349
was I I taped them of course so I was

986
00:38:57,910 --> 00:38:55,999
able to write down everything they said

987
00:39:00,609 --> 00:38:57,920
and kind of do a percentage calculation

988
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:00,619
of accuracy I did a lot of analysis of

989
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:02,930
both of them only afterwards because why

990
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:04,249
you're having it you just want to let go

991
00:39:09,489 --> 00:39:06,410
to the experience of it you know so it

992
00:39:11,410 --> 00:39:09,499
was just so mind-blowing and and

993
00:39:15,190 --> 00:39:11,420
incredible to sort of enter into that

994
00:39:17,229 --> 00:39:15,200
reality and I so that's how you become

995
00:39:18,670 --> 00:39:17,239
as an investigator you also become

996
00:39:20,769 --> 00:39:18,680
someone who as I was talking about

997
00:39:22,959 --> 00:39:20,779
earlier a sort of experience or at the

998
00:39:25,870 --> 00:39:22,969
same time doesn't no other way you can

999
00:39:28,390 --> 00:39:25,880
do it I was gonna ask that struggle of

1000
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:28,400
you know at once and I feel like I'm

1001
00:39:33,219 --> 00:39:31,249
very able to make that I'm very able to

1002
00:39:35,170 --> 00:39:33,229
do both at once okay I think some people

1003
00:39:37,420 --> 00:39:35,180
would have a harder time they're either

1004
00:39:39,430 --> 00:39:37,430
very analytical or very experienced but

1005
00:39:41,469 --> 00:39:39,440
I surround are the things I happen to be

1006
00:39:43,059 --> 00:39:41,479
able to do and so I was able to step

1007
00:39:45,219 --> 00:39:43,069
back from those readings and really

1008
00:39:47,829 --> 00:39:45,229
analyze them and ask a lot of questions

1009
00:39:49,150 --> 00:39:47,839
about them but allow myself in the

1010
00:39:50,499 --> 00:39:49,160
moment to really just be in the

1011
00:39:53,109 --> 00:39:50,509
experience and that's what you have to

1012
00:39:55,900 --> 00:39:53,119
do well and I mean being the fact that

1013
00:39:58,660 --> 00:39:55,910
you're both very journalistic and or

1014
00:40:01,870 --> 00:39:58,670
skeptical in every best sense of the

1015
00:40:03,849 --> 00:40:01,880
word skeptical how do you when you have

1016
00:40:06,519 --> 00:40:03,859
a paradigm shift like that like many UFO

1017
00:40:09,329 --> 00:40:06,529
experiencers do as well how you go on

1018
00:40:11,950 --> 00:40:09,339
day to day ordering your coffee or

1019
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:11,960
seeing people going into a church

1020
00:40:18,130 --> 00:40:15,170
coming out in being like I've spoken to

1021
00:40:21,370 --> 00:40:18,140
the disembodied consciousness or spirit

1022
00:40:23,410 --> 00:40:21,380
of my father like that just because you

1023
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:23,420
know you're never first of all once you

1024
00:40:28,570 --> 00:40:25,970
step back a little bit you're never 100%

1025
00:40:30,550 --> 00:40:28,580
sure of course there's always that

1026
00:40:33,070 --> 00:40:30,560
little element well maybe it wasn't her

1027
00:40:35,890 --> 00:40:33,080
maybe and also you don't stay in that

1028
00:40:38,500 --> 00:40:35,900
sort of state of Epiphany all the time

1029
00:40:40,690 --> 00:40:38,510
right you bet you go back into your

1030
00:40:42,970 --> 00:40:40,700
regular life and just yeah it's not like

1031
00:40:45,099 --> 00:40:42,980
it's a constant [\h__\h] in your mind that

1032
00:40:46,690 --> 00:40:45,109
never goes away you know so it's not

1033
00:40:50,020 --> 00:40:46,700
like you're not living in the real world

1034
00:40:52,900 --> 00:40:50,030
at all and I'm always questioning it I'm

1035
00:40:55,240 --> 00:40:52,910
always and I've had so many more

1036
00:41:01,180 --> 00:40:55,250
experiences we're the worst because I

1037
00:41:03,810 --> 00:41:01,190
really had we've seen some incredible

1038
00:41:08,770 --> 00:41:03,820
things and constantly we're like well

1039
00:41:10,420 --> 00:41:08,780
you know when you really can't it's good

1040
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:10,430
because when you really can't find that

1041
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:12,650
explanation you're much more comfortable

1042
00:41:16,780 --> 00:41:14,210
accepting that it is something anomalous

1043
00:41:18,849 --> 00:41:16,790
you know that it really is but you know

1044
00:41:20,290 --> 00:41:18,859
with mediumship the promise mental

1045
00:41:22,240 --> 00:41:20,300
mediumship which is the type we were

1046
00:41:23,859 --> 00:41:22,250
just talking about is that I mean a

1047
00:41:25,210 --> 00:41:23,869
skeptic although it's not really a

1048
00:41:27,790 --> 00:41:25,220
skeptic but you can make the argument

1049
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:27,800
that perhaps the mediums acquiring all

1050
00:41:31,780 --> 00:41:29,330
the information through some

1051
00:41:34,180 --> 00:41:31,790
extraordinary ability up to read your

1052
00:41:36,579 --> 00:41:34,190
mind or to see things at a distance

1053
00:41:38,710 --> 00:41:36,589
versus clairvoyance and that may be

1054
00:41:40,870 --> 00:41:38,720
therefore no dead person has to be

1055
00:41:43,599 --> 00:41:40,880
involved for them to be able to do this

1056
00:41:45,790 --> 00:41:43,609
it gets harder to explain when they give

1057
00:41:47,410 --> 00:41:45,800
you information that you don't know so

1058
00:41:48,910 --> 00:41:47,420
it's not in your mind for them to read

1059
00:41:50,890 --> 00:41:48,920
they have to be finding it through

1060
00:41:53,020 --> 00:41:50,900
someone else's mind but lots of times

1061
00:41:54,310 --> 00:41:53,030
people will get information where they

1062
00:41:55,390 --> 00:41:54,320
think no what are you talking about

1063
00:41:57,520 --> 00:41:55,400
that's the wrong answer

1064
00:42:00,070 --> 00:41:57,530
and then we'll go ask their mother two

1065
00:42:01,270 --> 00:42:00,080
weeks later and it was what was the

1066
00:42:02,650 --> 00:42:01,280
story you had about that birth

1067
00:42:04,510 --> 00:42:02,660
certificate that name

1068
00:42:05,859 --> 00:42:04,520
Oh my grandfather you you think it's the

1069
00:42:07,089 --> 00:42:05,869
wrong thing and then you find out and

1070
00:42:09,670 --> 00:42:07,099
you like how could she get that

1071
00:42:11,300 --> 00:42:09,680
information huh he's got a really good

1072
00:42:13,460 --> 00:42:11,310
examples yeah this way

1073
00:42:16,220 --> 00:42:13,470
I had my sister had a I set up a reading

1074
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:16,230
with a medium named George Anderson

1075
00:42:20,900 --> 00:42:19,170
who's pretty well known and we filmed it

1076
00:42:23,240 --> 00:42:20,910
and I had my sister have a reading with

1077
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:23,250
him and he didn't know that it was my

1078
00:42:26,270 --> 00:42:24,930
sister now we do look similar so he

1079
00:42:29,150 --> 00:42:26,280
could have you could have sucked that

1080
00:42:30,980 --> 00:42:29,160
out but I don't think that he did it was

1081
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:30,990
my instinct than even that he didn't

1082
00:42:34,100 --> 00:42:32,370
have any idea that this person was

1083
00:42:35,930 --> 00:42:34,110
anything to do with me anyway the

1084
00:42:37,580 --> 00:42:35,940
reading he gave to her was really

1085
00:42:41,300 --> 00:42:37,590
incredible including coming up with

1086
00:42:43,550 --> 00:42:41,310
names you know like my dad's name my my

1087
00:42:45,740 --> 00:42:43,560
grandfather's name my grandmother's name

1088
00:42:47,240 --> 00:42:45,750
at one point he said I was sitting in

1089
00:42:48,770 --> 00:42:47,250
the back of the room behind the cameras

1090
00:42:51,020 --> 00:42:48,780
and at one point he said to my sister uh

1091
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:51,030
Mike who's Mike there's someone named

1092
00:42:53,690 --> 00:42:52,410
Mike that's really important here and of

1093
00:42:55,700 --> 00:42:53,700
course that's my name but anyway the

1094
00:42:58,010 --> 00:42:55,710
real fascinating one was he said I have

1095
00:43:00,440 --> 00:42:58,020
your grandfather Jim here your your

1096
00:43:02,650 --> 00:43:00,450
mom's father Jim and that was his name

1097
00:43:04,970 --> 00:43:02,660
Jim and then he said no wait a second

1098
00:43:06,830 --> 00:43:04,980
Jim is what they called him but his

1099
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:06,840
birth certificate would would have said

1100
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:09,450
Vincenza and I was behind the camera

1101
00:43:14,180 --> 00:43:12,810
going no that's wrong you know I wish he

1102
00:43:16,370 --> 00:43:14,190
had just stopped that Jim because I was

1103
00:43:18,740 --> 00:43:16,380
so cool it was so right for a second

1104
00:43:21,410 --> 00:43:18,750
there and and then to my surprise my

1105
00:43:24,410 --> 00:43:21,420
sister said yes that's right and I was

1106
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:24,420
like so it came to find out later that I

1107
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:26,850
guess I'm a bad grandson I had no idea

1108
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:29,490
it would have said Vincenzo on his birth

1109
00:43:33,380 --> 00:43:31,530
certificate so anyway I called my mom

1110
00:43:34,430 --> 00:43:33,390
afterwards and she has his birth

1111
00:43:39,579 --> 00:43:34,440
certificate and sure enough

1112
00:43:44,289 --> 00:43:42,279
hey y'all Ryan sprek here as you all

1113
00:43:47,019 --> 00:43:44,299
know this summer in the skies podcast is

1114
00:43:49,599 --> 00:43:47,029
always free to consume but it isn't free

1115
00:43:51,459 --> 00:43:49,609
to create that's why I've started this

1116
00:43:54,309 --> 00:43:51,469
somewhere in the skies patreon campaign

1117
00:43:56,049 --> 00:43:54,319
you on a monthly basis you give what you

1118
00:43:58,870 --> 00:43:56,059
think the show is worth you'll be

1119
00:44:01,359 --> 00:43:58,880
helping the show continue grow and to be

1120
00:44:03,549 --> 00:44:01,369
something truly communal and remember

1121
00:44:06,130 --> 00:44:03,559
there are rewards for each level of

1122
00:44:08,499 --> 00:44:06,140
contribution and the list is only grown

1123
00:44:11,289 --> 00:44:08,509
so please help somewhere in the skies

1124
00:44:43,319 --> 00:44:11,299
now by becoming a patron to contribute

1125
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:46,660
www.samhsa.gov/dtac be telepathy roar

1126
00:44:50,349 --> 00:44:48,890
it's a dead person but the current

1127
00:44:52,059 --> 00:44:50,359
science this says

1128
00:44:53,829 --> 00:44:52,069
telepathy is not possible right just

1129
00:44:55,209 --> 00:44:53,839
that alone or it's not possible so to

1130
00:44:56,079 --> 00:44:55,219
test whether or not the medium was

1131
00:44:58,239 --> 00:44:56,089
reading my mind

1132
00:44:59,650 --> 00:44:58,249
we went to see us another medium a few

1133
00:45:03,160 --> 00:44:59,660
months later a different medium in Long

1134
00:45:04,839 --> 00:45:03,170
Island a guy named Jonathan Lewis and I

1135
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:04,849
said okay mom you know we're gonna drive

1136
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:06,170
down to Long Island we were up in

1137
00:45:10,299 --> 00:45:08,210
Connecticut when we leave here I want

1138
00:45:12,370 --> 00:45:10,309
you to sit on the porch and talk to dad

1139
00:45:15,099 --> 00:45:12,380
and ask him to say a specific thing

1140
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:15,109
don't tell us what it is just you talked

1141
00:45:18,940 --> 00:45:17,210
to him once we leave and ask him to say

1142
00:45:20,739 --> 00:45:18,950
a specific thing so we go and we have

1143
00:45:22,450 --> 00:45:20,749
this reading and again it's phenom and

1144
00:45:24,370 --> 00:45:22,460
all this guys coming up with names with

1145
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:24,380
things that just happened odd stuff we

1146
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:26,450
had talked about on the drive there in

1147
00:45:30,849 --> 00:45:28,729
the car he referenced a conversation we

1148
00:45:32,559 --> 00:45:30,859
had on the drive things like that it was

1149
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:32,569
extraordinary one thing he said though

1150
00:45:37,779 --> 00:45:34,130
didn't make sense he said does your mom

1151
00:45:39,849 --> 00:45:37,789
have a bad toe and we said no you know

1152
00:45:41,589 --> 00:45:39,859
no and he said okay I'm gonna leave that

1153
00:45:44,170 --> 00:45:41,599
with you just you know just keep it in

1154
00:45:46,150 --> 00:45:44,180
mind and then on this write back we

1155
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:46,160
called my mom and we told her everything

1156
00:45:51,190 --> 00:45:48,170
he said and then when my sister got to

1157
00:45:52,820 --> 00:45:51,200
the bad toe my mom got silent on the

1158
00:45:55,580 --> 00:45:52,830
phone because she was

1159
00:45:57,560 --> 00:45:55,590
we're like what what what that was the

1160
00:45:59,600 --> 00:45:57,570
thing apparently my mom has a crooked

1161
00:46:00,200 --> 00:45:59,610
toe and when she was sitting on the

1162
00:46:01,790 --> 00:46:00,210
porch

1163
00:46:03,260 --> 00:46:01,800
she had her shoes off and she looked

1164
00:46:07,340 --> 00:46:03,270
down at her toe and she said okay Robert

1165
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:07,350
I haven't mentioned my crooked toe so he

1166
00:46:15,230 --> 00:46:08,610
didn't say the word crooked he said the

1167
00:46:16,460 --> 00:46:15,240
word bad said bad but disclosed so at

1168
00:46:18,140 --> 00:46:16,470
that point I knew okay well that didn't

1169
00:46:20,930 --> 00:46:18,150
come out of my mind if this is some form

1170
00:46:23,390 --> 00:46:20,940
of telepathy advanced telepathy he

1171
00:46:25,730 --> 00:46:23,400
somehow found my mom in Connecticut and

1172
00:46:27,500 --> 00:46:25,740
got it out of her brain which is just as

1173
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:27,510
extraordinary as it being my dad you

1174
00:46:32,870 --> 00:46:31,050
know like so I have a question I'd like

1175
00:46:36,610 --> 00:46:32,880
to get you both your personal thoughts

1176
00:46:39,470 --> 00:46:36,620
on this no I I never really had a

1177
00:46:40,940 --> 00:46:39,480
paradigm-shifting experience like that

1178
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:40,950
in terms of what we're talking about

1179
00:46:49,030 --> 00:46:45,690
today however when my grandfather died

1180
00:46:52,690 --> 00:46:49,040
who I was very close to when he died I

1181
00:46:55,070 --> 00:46:52,700
hoped and prayed as the you know

1182
00:46:58,730 --> 00:46:55,080
conditioned Catholic I was growing up

1183
00:47:01,130 --> 00:46:58,740
that he would I'd hear from him or hear

1184
00:47:03,470 --> 00:47:01,140
his voice heard as a sign would come to

1185
00:47:05,900 --> 00:47:03,480
me and it never did and I waited years

1186
00:47:07,910 --> 00:47:05,910
and years for that to happen and I kept

1187
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:07,920
thinking I I was so close to you like

1188
00:47:12,350 --> 00:47:09,810
there's got to be a way to bridge that

1189
00:47:14,690 --> 00:47:12,360
gap like come on what and nothing

1190
00:47:19,310 --> 00:47:14,700
nothing ever happened and then one night

1191
00:47:21,230 --> 00:47:19,320
I had a dream and he wasn't the focal

1192
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:21,240
point of the dream by any means but I

1193
00:47:25,670 --> 00:47:23,010
saw him in the background

1194
00:47:28,100 --> 00:47:25,680
in the dream and it was the first time I

1195
00:47:31,460 --> 00:47:28,110
had a dream about him since he died and

1196
00:47:33,590 --> 00:47:31,470
I just remember him coming forward in

1197
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:33,600
the dream at one point and he started

1198
00:47:38,570 --> 00:47:36,090
talking to me and all I remember him

1199
00:47:41,270 --> 00:47:38,580
saying is I'm here what do you want to

1200
00:47:43,940 --> 00:47:41,280
talk about and then I woke up oh but

1201
00:47:46,700 --> 00:47:43,950
still he was there he was there and so

1202
00:47:49,790 --> 00:47:46,710
my question for you is what what do you

1203
00:47:53,510 --> 00:47:49,800
think when we dream this this is a whole

1204
00:47:56,030 --> 00:47:53,520
other aspect of this how we interpret

1205
00:47:58,100 --> 00:47:56,040
those dreams is that the consciousness

1206
00:47:59,510 --> 00:47:58,110
is that them trying to communicate with

1207
00:48:01,340 --> 00:47:59,520
us because I know that is a big part of

1208
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:01,350
all this too is people have dreams about

1209
00:48:05,090 --> 00:48:02,970
their loved ones visiting them and

1210
00:48:06,420 --> 00:48:05,100
everything um what we're all do dreams

1211
00:48:08,069 --> 00:48:06,430
play in all this

1212
00:48:09,539 --> 00:48:08,079
yeah I mean I'm not I'm not really that

1213
00:48:11,609 --> 00:48:09,549
much better expert on it but I know that

1214
00:48:13,170 --> 00:48:11,619
I mean I had one dream involving my

1215
00:48:15,959 --> 00:48:13,180
brother and I've heard this from other

1216
00:48:18,029 --> 00:48:15,969
people too that there's a quality when

1217
00:48:21,479 --> 00:48:18,039
they what they call a dream visitation

1218
00:48:23,099 --> 00:48:21,489
either research there's a quality to

1219
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:23,109
that dream that's different from your

1220
00:48:29,609 --> 00:48:26,170
average dream that it's it's really

1221
00:48:30,630 --> 00:48:29,619
vivid it's really intense you never

1222
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:30,640
forget it

1223
00:48:34,199 --> 00:48:32,170
you know most dreams you wake up and

1224
00:48:35,910 --> 00:48:34,209
they kind of dribble away and you never

1225
00:48:39,299 --> 00:48:35,920
remember them this is something that has

1226
00:48:43,949 --> 00:48:39,309
a huge impact and it's it's more alive

1227
00:48:46,079 --> 00:48:43,959
and more intense than any other dream

1228
00:48:47,999 --> 00:48:46,089
and you you can recognize the different

1229
00:48:49,319 --> 00:48:48,009
quality that it has and so I think

1230
00:48:51,929 --> 00:48:49,329
that's one that way to sort of

1231
00:48:54,359 --> 00:48:51,939
characterize what you know people feel

1232
00:48:57,179 --> 00:48:54,369
to be an actual visitation in the dream

1233
00:48:59,640 --> 00:48:57,189
state as opposed to just them having a

1234
00:49:02,309 --> 00:48:59,650
dream and I remember one I had one like

1235
00:49:04,229 --> 00:49:02,319
that involving my brother where I woke

1236
00:49:05,189 --> 00:49:04,239
up and it was in the country and it was

1237
00:49:07,349 --> 00:49:05,199
dead quiet

1238
00:49:08,849 --> 00:49:07,359
and dead you know pitch part black in my

1239
00:49:10,140 --> 00:49:08,859
room which I loved because in New York

1240
00:49:13,979 --> 00:49:10,150
you never gonna have a pitch-dark

1241
00:49:15,630 --> 00:49:13,989
yeah and when I just woke up during the

1242
00:49:17,609 --> 00:49:15,640
night and I heard his voice really

1243
00:49:19,349 --> 00:49:17,619
clearly I mean it does happen any once

1244
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:19,359
before but I heard him say my name I

1245
00:49:22,410 --> 00:49:21,130
didn't think much better and I went back

1246
00:49:25,319 --> 00:49:22,420
to sleep and it was right after that

1247
00:49:27,870 --> 00:49:25,329
that this very very powerful dream

1248
00:49:30,479 --> 00:49:27,880
happened where I really felt it to be a

1249
00:49:31,949 --> 00:49:30,489
visitation from him a message and then

1250
00:49:33,539 --> 00:49:31,959
he was showing me something and it was

1251
00:49:37,140 --> 00:49:33,549
showing me who he really was and it was

1252
00:49:38,819 --> 00:49:37,150
and I've never forgotten it so that's

1253
00:49:41,459 --> 00:49:38,829
sort of the way I think you can describe

1254
00:49:44,489 --> 00:49:41,469
these kinds of dreams but I also think

1255
00:49:46,829 --> 00:49:44,499
they're very subjective and people are

1256
00:49:49,289 --> 00:49:46,839
gonna have these experiences in all

1257
00:49:51,380 --> 00:49:49,299
different ways and really you as the

1258
00:49:53,999 --> 00:49:51,390
person having the dream has to decide

1259
00:49:55,650 --> 00:49:54,009
whether what that means to you I mean if

1260
00:49:57,059 --> 00:49:55,660
it doesn't have that intense quality you

1261
00:49:59,039 --> 00:49:57,069
might still be getting a message from

1262
00:50:01,499 --> 00:49:59,049
your loved one through a dream you know

1263
00:50:05,099 --> 00:50:01,509
and you felt that with your grandfather

1264
00:50:07,439 --> 00:50:05,109
I could smell the smoke comes yeah there

1265
00:50:09,179 --> 00:50:07,449
is a smoker his whole life so they are

1266
00:50:10,750 --> 00:50:09,189
there therefore that makes it your

1267
00:50:12,910 --> 00:50:10,760
grandfather I mean it doesn't

1268
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:12,920
in one level whether there's some

1269
00:50:16,930 --> 00:50:14,930
objective reality whether it was it

1270
00:50:18,910 --> 00:50:16,940
wasn't or not because it's an experience

1271
00:50:20,650 --> 00:50:18,920
that you had and what it means to you is

1272
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:20,660
what's important and I thought we feel

1273
00:50:25,900 --> 00:50:23,090
grandfather than it was I think that

1274
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:25,910
really plays into the your idea of we

1275
00:50:29,650 --> 00:50:27,770
play a big role as the active

1276
00:50:31,810 --> 00:50:29,660
participant in all this definitely and

1277
00:50:33,580 --> 00:50:31,820
is how we interpret it some experiences

1278
00:50:36,190 --> 00:50:33,590
are more can be more objectified than

1279
00:50:38,290 --> 00:50:36,200
others but dreams you know no I mean

1280
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:38,300
dreams are extremely obviously personal

1281
00:50:43,300 --> 00:50:40,850
and subjective and so you decide if that

1282
00:50:45,460 --> 00:50:43,310
person visited you you'll know you knew

1283
00:50:48,610 --> 00:50:45,470
I think a person having any space like

1284
00:50:50,860 --> 00:50:48,620
that knows when that's has that level of

1285
00:50:54,730 --> 00:50:50,870
meaning for them and I want to I think

1286
00:50:56,260 --> 00:50:54,740
to learning you're gonna chances are

1287
00:50:58,060 --> 00:50:56,270
you're going to hear from that person

1288
00:51:00,550 --> 00:50:58,070
right but I don't know I feel bad for

1289
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:00,560
people and doesn't happen I know yeah

1290
00:51:03,940 --> 00:51:02,210
you know and you're like some people

1291
00:51:05,950 --> 00:51:03,950
will say it's always gonna happen no

1292
00:51:07,990 --> 00:51:05,960
matter what like Laurel and Jackson say

1293
00:51:10,450 --> 00:51:08,000
that I don't know what happens when it

1294
00:51:12,670 --> 00:51:10,460
doesn't I didn't expect these things to

1295
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:12,680
happen to me but then they started to

1296
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:14,690
and then I start to ask for them more

1297
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:16,970
was just when I was ready to give up is

1298
00:51:21,730 --> 00:51:19,010
when I have yeah that's so good

1299
00:51:25,870 --> 00:51:21,740
I'm glad did and yeah something to say

1300
00:51:27,460 --> 00:51:25,880
about this is that you know dreams who

1301
00:51:30,250 --> 00:51:27,470
know like the brain is a complete

1302
00:51:32,110 --> 00:51:30,260
mystery to us right basically I mean of

1303
00:51:33,910 --> 00:51:32,120
course there are brilliant neurosciences

1304
00:51:36,130 --> 00:51:33,920
out there that have a lot of things

1305
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:36,140
mapped out and figured out but really

1306
00:51:40,150 --> 00:51:37,970
when it comes down to and we've only

1307
00:51:42,220 --> 00:51:40,160
scratched the tip of the iceberg with

1308
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:42,230
regard to the brain it's like this

1309
00:51:46,870 --> 00:51:44,930
miraculous unbelievable thing stopped

1310
00:51:49,780 --> 00:51:46,880
between our ears that we barely

1311
00:51:51,310 --> 00:51:49,790
understand right so so when I answer

1312
00:51:53,350 --> 00:51:51,320
this question that I am NOT a

1313
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:53,360
neuroscientist obviously right I'm a

1314
00:51:58,570 --> 00:51:55,850
bartender it's one of the you know

1315
00:52:00,670 --> 00:51:58,580
you're a therapist in some way yeah but

1316
00:52:02,230 --> 00:52:00,680
it isn't upfront state that and and

1317
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:02,240
there's a big difference between what

1318
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:05,450
science can can be used for and what an

1319
00:52:09,010 --> 00:52:07,370
experience means to a person right like

1320
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:09,020
a person can have a life-changing

1321
00:52:12,370 --> 00:52:09,890
experience

1322
00:52:14,110 --> 00:52:12,380
that is useless to science right like my

1323
00:52:16,780 --> 00:52:14,120
experience with Angelina where she said

1324
00:52:18,310 --> 00:52:16,790
the thing a scientist would obviously

1325
00:52:20,500 --> 00:52:18,320
not be able to do anything with that

1326
00:52:22,150 --> 00:52:20,510
data right it's an anomaly it's a it's a

1327
00:52:24,340 --> 00:52:22,160
one-off thing they'd say there's you

1328
00:52:26,050 --> 00:52:24,350
know but to me it was life-changing

1329
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:26,060
so it's the same thing with these dreams

1330
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:28,850
like what exactly is happening there who

1331
00:52:33,550 --> 00:52:31,610
knows but if it is meaningful to the

1332
00:52:36,430 --> 00:52:33,560
person who has the dream that's what

1333
00:52:38,740 --> 00:52:36,440
matters right but to try to get into

1334
00:52:42,550 --> 00:52:38,750
some of this the very basic science

1335
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:42,560
about this the brain we know does give

1336
00:52:46,870 --> 00:52:45,050
off waves right we know that it operates

1337
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:46,880
and in different wavelengths like

1338
00:52:52,270 --> 00:52:50,210
there's alpha theta and beta and the

1339
00:52:54,310 --> 00:52:52,280
typical day to day walking around brain

1340
00:52:56,590 --> 00:52:54,320
is operating in alpha I believe it is

1341
00:52:58,030 --> 00:52:56,600
right and I'm pretty sure it's alpha

1342
00:53:00,100 --> 00:52:58,040
wave some when you go to sleep that's

1343
00:53:01,690 --> 00:53:00,110
it's getting down into into beta and

1344
00:53:05,290 --> 00:53:01,700
like really really deep sleep I think is

1345
00:53:06,370 --> 00:53:05,300
is theta I believe and you know there

1346
00:53:08,910 --> 00:53:06,380
have been some mediums who have been

1347
00:53:11,020 --> 00:53:08,920
hooked up to two you know in

1348
00:53:12,580 --> 00:53:11,030
electroencephalograms I would it's

1349
00:53:15,730 --> 00:53:12,590
called the ones that test the brain you

1350
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:15,740
know the brain waves and sure enough

1351
00:53:19,540 --> 00:53:17,330
some of them are showing that the brain

1352
00:53:22,510 --> 00:53:19,550
patterns seem to the brainwave patterns

1353
00:53:24,130 --> 00:53:22,520
seem to change when they go into this

1354
00:53:26,860 --> 00:53:24,140
meditative state that they say

1355
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:26,870
facilitates them this communication that

1356
00:53:31,870 --> 00:53:29,090
they claim this coming from the other

1357
00:53:33,670 --> 00:53:31,880
side yeah so there is some science that

1358
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:33,680
can be done there is some empirical

1359
00:53:37,900 --> 00:53:35,570
evidence that we can gather at least

1360
00:53:39,820 --> 00:53:37,910
with regard to how the brain seems to be

1361
00:53:41,590 --> 00:53:39,830
functioning and when we go to sleep at

1362
00:53:42,940 --> 00:53:41,600
night we're obviously going into a

1363
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:42,950
different state of consciousness and our

1364
00:53:48,370 --> 00:53:44,690
brainwaves are changing when you sleep

1365
00:53:52,300 --> 00:53:48,380
and is it possible that one form of

1366
00:53:55,060 --> 00:53:52,310
brainwave is more conducive to to again

1367
00:53:57,100 --> 00:53:55,070
acting as some sort of an antenna than

1368
00:54:00,880 --> 00:53:57,110
other brainwaves maybe that's true maybe

1369
00:54:03,490 --> 00:54:00,890
our waking brain is filtering out in

1370
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:03,500
some way maybe this stuff operates on

1371
00:54:08,710 --> 00:54:06,410
some completely speculation obviously

1372
00:54:09,910 --> 00:54:08,720
but maybe this stuff operates on some

1373
00:54:12,490 --> 00:54:09,920
wavelength that that just doesn't

1374
00:54:13,930 --> 00:54:12,500
penetrate a waking brain and that the

1375
00:54:17,670 --> 00:54:13,940
brain needs to get into a different

1376
00:54:21,250 --> 00:54:17,680
state of vibration in a sense before

1377
00:54:23,890 --> 00:54:21,260
like if we just if we accept the the

1378
00:54:26,860 --> 00:54:23,900
idea that consciousness can exist as

1379
00:54:29,170 --> 00:54:26,870
something separate from the brain what

1380
00:54:31,990 --> 00:54:29,180
is the brains function that in that you

1381
00:54:35,620 --> 00:54:32,000
know what what is the brain is it a you

1382
00:54:37,390 --> 00:54:35,630
know the big question is current science

1383
00:54:39,220 --> 00:54:37,400
says that the brain generates conscious

1384
00:54:41,020 --> 00:54:39,230
this right mm-hm the brain is the

1385
00:54:42,790 --> 00:54:41,030
generator of consciousness what we think

1386
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:42,800
of as consciousness and when the heart

1387
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:44,330
stops beating and blood stops flowing

1388
00:54:50,170 --> 00:54:47,930
and the electrical impulses end so does

1389
00:54:53,500 --> 00:54:50,180
consciousness so does what you think of

1390
00:54:54,790 --> 00:54:53,510
is you what we are investigating here

1391
00:54:56,710 --> 00:54:54,800
and what Leslie is investing

1392
00:54:58,420 --> 00:54:56,720
investigated with this book is the

1393
00:55:01,150 --> 00:54:58,430
possibility that the brain is not the

1394
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:01,160
generator of consciousness but is some

1395
00:55:07,150 --> 00:55:03,770
sort of a receiver of companies in some

1396
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:07,160
kind of way and and so if that is the

1397
00:55:12,370 --> 00:55:09,650
case that it is some sort of sort of a

1398
00:55:15,700 --> 00:55:12,380
receiver then the state of that receiver

1399
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:15,710
would change what sorts of things that

1400
00:55:20,020 --> 00:55:17,570
can pick up you would think so like a

1401
00:55:21,790 --> 00:55:20,030
radio right if you're tuning the

1402
00:55:23,350 --> 00:55:21,800
frequency right now we're sitting in

1403
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:23,360
this room and there are hundreds of

1404
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:24,890
different radio stations and Wi-Fi

1405
00:55:28,390 --> 00:55:26,450
signals right all of this is here right

1406
00:55:29,740 --> 00:55:28,400
now we can't see it or hear it or

1407
00:55:32,170 --> 00:55:29,750
interact with it because our brains

1408
00:55:34,090 --> 00:55:32,180
aren't set up to be antennas to that but

1409
00:55:35,890 --> 00:55:34,100
if we turned on the radio suddenly this

1410
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:35,900
apartment would be flooded with sound

1411
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:38,570
that's here right now we just can't hear

1412
00:55:43,930 --> 00:55:41,450
it and perhaps there's something about

1413
00:55:46,900 --> 00:55:43,940
the dream state it's like changing the

1414
00:55:48,580 --> 00:55:46,910
dial on the on the radio that makes us

1415
00:55:51,310 --> 00:55:48,590
you so your brain is now picking up

1416
00:55:53,260 --> 00:55:51,320
things that were here before but that it

1417
00:55:55,240 --> 00:55:53,270
just couldn't register for whatever

1418
00:55:58,000 --> 00:55:55,250
reason and because I've had those dreams

1419
00:56:00,670 --> 00:55:58,010
after my dad passed and they for me

1420
00:56:02,980 --> 00:56:00,680
again totally subjective but we're of an

1421
00:56:04,570 --> 00:56:02,990
entirely different quality than my

1422
00:56:06,550 --> 00:56:04,580
typical dreams most of my dreams are

1423
00:56:08,230 --> 00:56:06,560
nonsense like I think you know I you

1424
00:56:10,720 --> 00:56:08,240
know what they're all about you know you

1425
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:10,730
poker with your boss sadly yeah

1426
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:14,170
sometimes crying just plain it no yeah

1427
00:56:18,340 --> 00:56:16,610
like yeah my subconscious is like this

1428
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:18,350
weirdo place as it turns out my dreams

1429
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:20,330
are just weird but these ones with my

1430
00:56:24,910 --> 00:56:22,970
dad are usually very simple like he's

1431
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:24,920
just a lot of times it's no more than

1432
00:56:29,380 --> 00:56:27,890
he's there and he's smiling at me and he

1433
00:56:30,820 --> 00:56:29,390
hugs it's gets me emotional like because

1434
00:56:33,940 --> 00:56:30,830
these dreams still it's still when I

1435
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:33,950
really recall these dreams it's really

1436
00:56:38,290 --> 00:56:36,050
powerful because they are such a

1437
00:56:40,390 --> 00:56:38,300
different different thing so so yeah

1438
00:56:42,670 --> 00:56:40,400
that's a big long convoluted answer to

1439
00:56:45,250 --> 00:56:42,680
to what how dreams play into this but no

1440
00:56:47,140 --> 00:56:45,260
it's I mean again it's this is all

1441
00:56:49,570 --> 00:56:47,150
subjective if we rightly look at it yeah

1442
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:49,580
but narrowing in on the evidence which

1443
00:56:52,370 --> 00:56:50,490
is what Leslie

1444
00:56:53,930 --> 00:56:52,380
done in the book and I think the

1445
00:56:56,990 --> 00:56:53,940
furthering research that the two of you

1446
00:56:58,790 --> 00:56:57,000
are doing together is it's subjective

1447
00:57:01,880 --> 00:56:58,800
but at the same time you can't argue it

1448
00:57:03,500 --> 00:57:01,890
it's fact it's facts what it happened

1449
00:57:04,910 --> 00:57:03,510
it's fact that it happened does the real

1450
00:57:07,070 --> 00:57:04,920
question about something like mental

1451
00:57:08,359 --> 00:57:07,080
mediumship is you can document that it

1452
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:08,369
happens and there's no way she could

1453
00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:10,410
have cheated but the question that

1454
00:57:15,290 --> 00:57:13,170
remains as I said is it was it there how

1455
00:57:16,609 --> 00:57:15,300
did they get that impression and that

1456
00:57:18,140 --> 00:57:16,619
and you can't prove that that

1457
00:57:19,220 --> 00:57:18,150
information came from a dead person

1458
00:57:19,850 --> 00:57:19,230
right if you're looking at it

1459
00:57:21,770 --> 00:57:19,860
objectively

1460
00:57:23,930 --> 00:57:21,780
you as a sitter as somebody who's

1461
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:23,940
receiving it can really feel that that's

1462
00:57:26,810 --> 00:57:25,530
where it was from because if there's

1463
00:57:29,300 --> 00:57:26,820
more than just information its

1464
00:57:31,220 --> 00:57:29,310
personality traits styles of talking

1465
00:57:33,650 --> 00:57:31,230
right you know lots of other things that

1466
00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:33,660
enter into it so it certainly feels that

1467
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:36,570
way yeah but you can't objectively prove

1468
00:57:38,900 --> 00:57:36,930
it

1469
00:57:41,750 --> 00:57:38,910
but there are some things that you can

1470
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:41,760
oh yeah all right oh my god there's

1471
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:44,730
another type of mediumship and again I

1472
00:57:49,250 --> 00:57:47,010
only only get to this at the very end of

1473
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:49,260
my book because I don't want any I want

1474
00:57:53,359 --> 00:57:50,610
to tell your listeners if they read the

1475
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:53,369
book read it in order okay don't skip

1476
00:57:58,160 --> 00:57:55,530
around okay cuz it's got a bill to save

1477
00:57:59,840 --> 00:57:58,170
the best for this is really the hardest

1478
00:58:01,400 --> 00:57:59,850
thing to understand but it's a type of

1479
00:58:03,020 --> 00:58:01,410
mediumship called physical mediumship

1480
00:58:06,980 --> 00:58:03,030
and in that scenario

1481
00:58:09,290 --> 00:58:06,990
it's very rare very rare there are

1482
00:58:11,330 --> 00:58:09,300
physical manifestations that occur in a

1483
00:58:12,890 --> 00:58:11,340
room with a with this particular medium

1484
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:12,900
it's usually a group of people and

1485
00:58:18,349 --> 00:58:16,170
everybody sees the same thing so that

1486
00:58:20,090 --> 00:58:18,359
therefore it really is objective that

1487
00:58:22,340 --> 00:58:20,100
these things are happening I mean that

1488
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:22,350
again it's hard to explain how they

1489
00:58:26,450 --> 00:58:24,210
happen but they're physical things that

1490
00:58:28,220 --> 00:58:26,460
actually do happen and lots and lots and

1491
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:28,230
lots of people can see them and they can

1492
00:58:34,250 --> 00:58:30,090
be repeated over and over and over again

1493
00:58:36,230 --> 00:58:34,260
is this what I assume is what the seance

1494
00:58:38,300 --> 00:58:36,240
work would be yeah I mean they call

1495
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:38,310
these meeting seances I don't let the

1496
00:58:51,550 --> 00:58:47,810
word right because we have these yes

1497
00:58:53,530 --> 00:58:51,560
of what it looks like a better word it's

1498
00:58:55,060 --> 00:58:53,540
it's his meetings that you have with

1499
00:58:56,830 --> 00:58:55,070
this physical medium and it's a group

1500
00:58:59,110 --> 00:58:56,840
that he works with on a regular basis

1501
00:59:00,940 --> 00:58:59,120
called a circle because his home circle

1502
00:59:02,740 --> 00:59:00,950
are the medium we're talking about us a

1503
00:59:04,930 --> 00:59:02,750
man named Stuart Alexander who's in the

1504
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:04,940
UK he's in his 70s and doing this like

1505
00:59:08,980 --> 00:59:05,690
40 years

1506
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:08,990
he absolutely genuine never been caught

1507
00:59:12,670 --> 00:59:10,730
in fraud or anything like that I know

1508
00:59:14,650 --> 00:59:12,680
him I've known him for five years and

1509
00:59:17,170 --> 00:59:14,660
studied his mediumship and in great

1510
00:59:21,370 --> 00:59:17,180
depth so hey that's for him this is an

1511
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:21,380
individual you both yes I could do it

1512
00:59:25,510 --> 00:59:23,930
occasion well he's met him as well no

1513
00:59:27,010 --> 00:59:25,520
I'm not gonna give away what happens at

1514
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:27,020
the end of let's all focus I want people

1515
00:59:31,330 --> 00:59:28,970
to buy it and read it yeah but I'll just

1516
00:59:33,310 --> 00:59:31,340
tell you that when I read the last

1517
00:59:34,420 --> 00:59:33,320
chapter of her book most of what's in

1518
00:59:36,040 --> 00:59:34,430
the book I'd been aware of because I've

1519
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:36,050
been studying it for the documentary I

1520
00:59:40,330 --> 00:59:38,210
was working on it's the last chapter on

1521
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:40,340
physical mediumship nice - the last -

1522
00:59:44,650 --> 00:59:42,410
Jeff my account of it and then stir this

1523
00:59:46,210 --> 00:59:44,660
chapter that he wrote himself yeah yeah

1524
00:59:48,190 --> 00:59:46,220
but when I read her account of what she

1525
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:48,200
witnessed which I won't say specifically

1526
00:59:53,020 --> 00:59:49,970
I was like what

1527
00:59:55,900 --> 00:59:53,030
come on and then less than a year after

1528
00:59:58,360 --> 00:59:55,910
reading that in her book I was sitting

1529
01:00:00,850 --> 00:59:58,370
in England with Leslie and this man

1530
01:00:02,380 --> 01:00:00,860
Stuart Alexander and I saw the thing

1531
01:00:04,930 --> 01:00:02,390
happen right in front of my eyes that

1532
01:00:06,580 --> 01:00:04,940
Leslie talks about in the book it's real

1533
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:06,590
right so like she was saying there are

1534
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:08,210
some things that just simply are

1535
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:10,850
objectively true are objectively real

1536
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:13,130
and when I saw this thing happen talk

1537
01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:15,170
about a paradigm shifting moment when I

1538
01:00:19,210 --> 01:00:17,690
have the mental medium thing happen when

1539
01:00:20,830 --> 01:00:19,220
the medium mentioned the thing the code

1540
01:00:23,530 --> 01:00:20,840
word that blew me away

1541
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:23,540
and I from then on started to believe

1542
01:00:30,370 --> 01:00:26,810
that my dad really was here and that the

1543
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:30,380
critical paranormal is normal but when I

1544
01:00:35,140 --> 01:00:32,690
saw this thing happen it moved me from

1545
01:00:38,530 --> 01:00:35,150
believing it was real to knowing it was

1546
01:00:40,780 --> 01:00:38,540
real and that is a jump that's a quantum

1547
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:40,790
leap it's a shift between night and day

1548
01:00:45,460 --> 01:00:43,130
between believing given all of the

1549
01:00:49,450 --> 01:00:45,470
evidence you know and all of the

1550
01:00:52,180 --> 01:00:49,460
statistics that's belief but seeing that

1551
01:00:54,370 --> 01:00:52,190
and knowing it I can't describe how big

1552
01:00:56,650 --> 01:00:54,380
of a shift that was in my life because

1553
01:00:59,230 --> 01:00:56,660
once once once you see that something

1554
01:01:01,540 --> 01:00:59,240
like that that is so far outside of what

1555
01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:01,550
science has always told me is the way

1556
01:01:08,710 --> 01:01:04,690
this thing works this universe works

1557
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:08,720
then it really like whitley strieber

1558
01:01:13,900 --> 01:01:11,210
describes it as cracking the cosmic egg

1559
01:01:17,410 --> 01:01:13,910
I think we're like it just it sort of

1560
01:01:23,020 --> 01:01:17,420
shatters your sense of reality and

1561
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:23,030
suddenly you're open to new to the truth

1562
01:01:27,490 --> 01:01:24,890
I guess right cuz we're we have these

1563
01:01:29,830 --> 01:01:27,500
narratives in our heads that are so

1564
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:29,840
easily created and mythologies are so

1565
01:01:34,270 --> 01:01:31,970
easily created right we hear a thing

1566
01:01:35,590 --> 01:01:34,280
like when I was young and I was reading

1567
01:01:38,770 --> 01:01:35,600
about mediumship I might have heard that

1568
01:01:40,360 --> 01:01:38,780
Oh Houdini he he debunked mediumship

1569
01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:40,370
physical mediumship there's no truth to

1570
01:01:45,010 --> 01:01:42,650
that that's all I did was hear that and

1571
01:01:47,530 --> 01:01:45,020
that became my narrative and that became

1572
01:01:48,820 --> 01:01:47,540
my truth yeah just like that just

1573
01:01:50,380 --> 01:01:48,830
because somebody said it I don't even

1574
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:50,390
remember who it was who said it or what

1575
01:01:54,010 --> 01:01:52,490
they might have known or didn't know and

1576
01:01:55,690 --> 01:01:54,020
after you actually study the actual

1577
01:01:56,770 --> 01:01:55,700
phenomena you find out that there's way

1578
01:01:58,960 --> 01:01:56,780
more to the story

1579
01:02:00,490 --> 01:01:58,970
then Houdini quote/unquote debunked

1580
01:02:03,220 --> 01:02:00,500
mediumship there's way more to that

1581
01:02:05,980 --> 01:02:03,230
story so once you see what Leslie

1582
01:02:08,980 --> 01:02:05,990
describes in her book it really opens

1583
01:02:12,700 --> 01:02:08,990
your eyes and and now and now you can

1584
01:02:14,740 --> 01:02:12,710
start to look at what's really there

1585
01:02:16,930 --> 01:02:14,750
rather than what your brain has led you

1586
01:02:18,730 --> 01:02:16,940
to believe is this yeah it's just the

1587
01:02:20,500 --> 01:02:18,740
important thing about it is that

1588
01:02:23,590 --> 01:02:20,510
multiple people can witness the same

1589
01:02:25,780 --> 01:02:23,600
thing he over tens you know decades yeah

1590
01:02:28,750 --> 01:02:25,790
so some of the phenomena that occur

1591
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:28,760
there probably hundreds of people have

1592
01:02:33,220 --> 01:02:31,130
seen by now yeah they see the same

1593
01:02:34,690 --> 01:02:33,230
things you know didn't give an example

1594
01:02:39,900 --> 01:02:34,700
of one which it's not the big one that

1595
01:02:42,370 --> 01:02:39,910
Micah didn't want to talk about yeah

1596
01:02:43,660 --> 01:02:42,380
it's too hard to talk about it because

1597
01:02:45,310 --> 01:02:43,670
you've got to build up to it

1598
01:02:47,710 --> 01:02:45,320
yes I'd give a lot of supporting

1599
01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:47,720
evidence in the book that before I talk

1600
01:02:51,130 --> 01:02:49,250
about witnessing this myself because

1601
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:51,140
it's been documented throughout you know

1602
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:53,450
in history a couple of times and once

1603
01:02:57,520 --> 01:02:55,250
people read that they'll be way more

1604
01:02:58,570 --> 01:02:57,530
open to accepting its reality but to

1605
01:03:01,210 --> 01:02:58,580
give an example of something a little

1606
01:03:03,580 --> 01:03:01,220
less spectacular but which is also

1607
01:03:06,190 --> 01:03:03,590
spectacular is what an example of one

1608
01:03:09,130 --> 01:03:06,200
thing that occurs is levitation of

1609
01:03:10,840 --> 01:03:09,140
things or movement of things so you're

1610
01:03:12,490 --> 01:03:10,850
in a dark room there's a whole lot of

1611
01:03:15,100 --> 01:03:12,500
reasons why it's dark which I don't know

1612
01:03:15,549 --> 01:03:15,110
if we're gonna go into right now but it

1613
01:03:18,699 --> 01:03:15,559
isn't

1614
01:03:21,130 --> 01:03:18,709
dark and for paranormal things to occur

1615
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:21,140
lots of times you need darkness can I

1616
01:03:26,650 --> 01:03:24,410
assume it's a sense deprivation so it's

1617
01:03:28,150 --> 01:03:26,660
not really we are aware that this is a

1618
01:03:30,039 --> 01:03:28,160
huge red flag but we just want to say

1619
01:03:31,689 --> 01:03:30,049
outright we know that's right I think

1620
01:03:33,699 --> 01:03:31,699
it's been the whole half-hour talking

1621
01:03:36,009 --> 01:03:33,709
about if you want to if people can just

1622
01:03:38,890 --> 01:03:36,019
you know that's some of the phenomenon

1623
01:03:40,779 --> 01:03:38,900
is light sensitive as crazy as it sounds

1624
01:03:43,449 --> 01:03:40,789
the stuff that is involved in this

1625
01:03:45,429 --> 01:03:43,459
physical phenomena is very sensitive I

1626
01:03:47,349 --> 01:03:45,439
and I do yes I do there's a lot of

1627
01:03:48,849 --> 01:03:47,359
scientists I write quote them in my book

1628
01:03:51,489 --> 01:03:48,859
that have looked index try to explain

1629
01:03:53,969 --> 01:03:51,499
why okay so I just you know if people

1630
01:03:56,949 --> 01:03:53,979
can just suspend that critique for now

1631
01:03:58,870 --> 01:03:56,959
because and any Stewart's Sansa's room

1632
01:04:00,939 --> 01:03:58,880
the lights do go on for some of the time

1633
01:04:03,039 --> 01:04:00,949
it's up all on the dark okay like this

1634
01:04:04,870 --> 01:04:03,049
thing that I saw okay I saw in life yes

1635
01:04:06,549 --> 01:04:04,880
I've seen him you know some stuff that's

1636
01:04:08,079 --> 01:04:06,559
in the light it's and it's not like

1637
01:04:09,969 --> 01:04:08,089
these trying to hide anything but for

1638
01:04:11,769 --> 01:04:09,979
some things to occur they need to be in

1639
01:04:14,229 --> 01:04:11,779
the dark or whatever reason but this

1640
01:04:17,049 --> 01:04:14,239
object that that levitates is lit up

1641
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:17,059
so it's it's called a trumpet it's kind

1642
01:04:20,140 --> 01:04:18,650
of a tradition and physical mediumship

1643
01:04:22,449 --> 01:04:20,150
it's like a cone-shaped thing maybe

1644
01:04:24,279 --> 01:04:22,459
about a foot long foot and a half it's

1645
01:04:28,179 --> 01:04:24,289
like a megaphone kind of shaped thing

1646
01:04:30,549 --> 01:04:28,189
and the the large opening has a luminous

1647
01:04:33,729 --> 01:04:30,559
tape around it so you can see it so it

1648
01:04:36,189 --> 01:04:33,739
starts off on the floor and you can see

1649
01:04:38,349 --> 01:04:36,199
it rise up into the air and it flies all

1650
01:04:40,209 --> 01:04:38,359
around the room it goes around and

1651
01:04:42,249 --> 01:04:40,219
touches people very gently and

1652
01:04:44,349 --> 01:04:42,259
specifically like in the pitch dark but

1653
01:04:46,209 --> 01:04:44,359
it'll still like it's been like times

1654
01:04:49,209 --> 01:04:46,219
where it's stroked my whole face very

1655
01:04:50,650 --> 01:04:49,219
gently but doesn't touch my glasses you

1656
01:04:52,870 --> 01:04:50,660
know things like that or it'll touch

1657
01:04:54,939 --> 01:04:52,880
somebody on the shoulder and you can see

1658
01:04:56,620 --> 01:04:54,949
it because it's lit up it's flying all

1659
01:04:58,239 --> 01:04:56,630
over the room and this is a physical

1660
01:05:00,479 --> 01:04:58,249
object that's not supposed to be able to

1661
01:05:04,089 --> 01:05:00,489
do that and that's that's almost like

1662
01:05:07,900 --> 01:05:04,099
the kindergarten of this stop it's so

1663
01:05:11,049 --> 01:05:07,910
kind of easy yeah after all reminds me

1664
01:05:13,089 --> 01:05:11,059
of Matilda yeah that happened because I

1665
01:05:14,469 --> 01:05:13,099
saw that first it was like that was the

1666
01:05:17,289 --> 01:05:14,479
first thing that I thought it was like

1667
01:05:20,079 --> 01:05:17,299
oh my god it's one of where do we go

1668
01:05:23,380 --> 01:05:20,089
from is happening what am I seeing you

1669
01:05:25,089 --> 01:05:23,390
know it's like hard to really I imagine

1670
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:25,099
it's or like seeing a UFO it's something

1671
01:05:30,270 --> 01:05:27,090
so out of the realm of

1672
01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:30,280
you're just so gorgeous it's just like

1673
01:05:34,770 --> 01:05:32,410
so much fun to see it and you get into

1674
01:05:38,300 --> 01:05:34,780
this very wonderful offended amazed

1675
01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:38,310
almost childlike total state of just aw

1676
01:05:43,230 --> 01:05:41,890
no it's really really fun I described by

1677
01:05:45,450 --> 01:05:43,240
thin my book for the first time I ever

1678
01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:45,460
witnessed that okay so anyway we could

1679
01:05:50,430 --> 01:05:48,210
but I think the point is that some

1680
01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:50,440
phenomena that suggests survival

1681
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:52,170
consciousness are more easily

1682
01:05:57,360 --> 01:05:54,970
objectified than others and even those

1683
01:05:59,280 --> 01:05:57,370
although those same thing we can't

1684
01:06:01,110 --> 01:05:59,290
really prove that they're being created

1685
01:06:02,820 --> 01:06:01,120
by dead people who can't prove it

1686
01:06:04,710 --> 01:06:02,830
objectively but it sure seems that way

1687
01:06:07,770 --> 01:06:04,720
when you're in the road because there

1688
01:06:11,460 --> 01:06:07,780
are spirit people where voices who speak

1689
01:06:13,050 --> 01:06:11,470
through the medium that are people they

1690
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:13,060
say who once lived on the earth and

1691
01:06:16,590 --> 01:06:14,730
they're they're really consistent

1692
01:06:17,940 --> 01:06:16,600
characters that you get to know over

1693
01:06:20,010 --> 01:06:17,950
time the whole thing sounds really

1694
01:06:22,260 --> 01:06:20,020
really insane so that's why I'm telling

1695
01:06:24,030 --> 01:06:22,270
people you've got a you've got a read

1696
01:06:26,190 --> 01:06:24,040
other stuff first and kind of get

1697
01:06:27,930 --> 01:06:26,200
prepared video tell me do this you even

1698
01:06:30,140 --> 01:06:27,940
like hesitated to include this in the

1699
01:06:32,520 --> 01:06:30,150
book didn't you it initially because

1700
01:06:34,530 --> 01:06:32,530
yeah I think I'm more hesitated to

1701
01:06:37,050 --> 01:06:34,540
include my own personal experiences I

1702
01:06:39,270 --> 01:06:37,060
guess just partly this yeah yeah I mean

1703
01:06:41,130 --> 01:06:39,280
it was it was really and I think the

1704
01:06:42,710 --> 01:06:41,140
only way I could have ever done it was

1705
01:06:44,340 --> 01:06:42,720
the fact that I I showed some

1706
01:06:46,650 --> 01:06:44,350
documentation that was done by

1707
01:06:49,410 --> 01:06:46,660
scientists of this happening under

1708
01:06:50,850 --> 01:06:49,420
extremely controlled conditions way more

1709
01:06:52,260 --> 01:06:50,860
subtle than with Stewart you know in

1710
01:06:54,270 --> 01:06:52,270
terms of the tight controls and so I've

1711
01:06:55,620 --> 01:06:54,280
been able to establish other incidences

1712
01:06:57,720 --> 01:06:55,630
where it's been documented over

1713
01:06:59,700 --> 01:06:57,730
throughout in the last 100 years by

1714
01:07:01,710 --> 01:06:59,710
Nobel Prize winners really sophisticated

1715
01:07:03,360 --> 01:07:01,720
people who were skeptics and then who

1716
01:07:05,070 --> 01:07:03,370
published articles about it and some

1717
01:07:09,030 --> 01:07:05,080
journals and stuff like that so you kind

1718
01:07:11,250 --> 01:07:09,040
of get okay it's happened before it's

1719
01:07:14,010 --> 01:07:11,260
airtight yeah well then why can't it

1720
01:07:16,980 --> 01:07:14,020
happen now right and it does but it's

1721
01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:16,990
very rare it's very rare I think it's

1722
01:07:24,810 --> 01:07:20,770
interesting to what role language plays

1723
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:24,820
in a lot of this no I mean we have these

1724
01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:26,290
words that we always think of when it

1725
01:07:31,020 --> 01:07:27,690
comes to this stuff you know

1726
01:07:32,460 --> 01:07:31,030
consciousness the the soul if we're

1727
01:07:34,710 --> 01:07:32,470
looking at it more from a religious

1728
01:07:37,310 --> 01:07:34,720
aspect what role do you think language

1729
01:07:39,079 --> 01:07:37,320
plays in how we interpret these

1730
01:07:42,259 --> 01:07:39,089
anomalous thing

1731
01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:42,269
when it comes to past life after life I

1732
01:07:47,539 --> 01:07:45,930
know you don't like that yeah but I put

1733
01:07:49,819 --> 01:07:47,549
that alone right there after I try to

1734
01:07:51,859 --> 01:07:49,829
use language that's as non-religious as

1735
01:07:53,479 --> 01:07:51,869
possible so that it's universal we

1736
01:07:56,079 --> 01:07:53,489
thought that everybody can relate to it

1737
01:07:58,609 --> 01:07:56,089
yeah we're like yeah there's the word

1738
01:08:01,249 --> 01:07:58,619
that you'll read a lot about it in

1739
01:08:01,519 --> 01:08:01,259
Leslie's book ectoplasm right which one

1740
01:08:03,709 --> 01:08:01,529
I am

1741
01:08:09,950 --> 01:08:03,719
we're gonna get into them I'm not gonna

1742
01:08:11,930 --> 01:08:09,960
get into like what I see words go you

1743
01:08:15,709 --> 01:08:11,940
know like I knew that word from ghost

1744
01:08:16,939 --> 01:08:15,719
bust me know so and I still when I'm

1745
01:08:18,019 --> 01:08:16,949
like out in public talking about this

1746
01:08:19,760 --> 01:08:18,029
stuff I like look over my shoulder

1747
01:08:20,809 --> 01:08:19,770
before I say the word ectoplasm yeah I

1748
01:08:22,490 --> 01:08:20,819
know I keep saying this Stewart or like

1749
01:08:24,979 --> 01:08:22,500
we gotta come up with a difference we

1750
01:08:29,180 --> 01:08:24,989
need a different word it's so loaded now

1751
01:08:31,010 --> 01:08:29,190
yeah but because yeah language matters

1752
01:08:32,209 --> 01:08:31,020
you know that's but that's something

1753
01:08:33,260 --> 01:08:32,219
very specific I think you're talking

1754
01:08:35,300 --> 01:08:33,270
more about like a word like

1755
01:08:38,390 --> 01:08:35,310
consciousness as opposed to soul as

1756
01:08:40,249 --> 01:08:38,400
would be realism and I think the key is

1757
01:08:42,379 --> 01:08:40,259
to try to use language that's most

1758
01:08:44,599 --> 01:08:42,389
universal you can't fly so if somebody

1759
01:08:46,339 --> 01:08:44,609
wants to think of it as a soul that's

1760
01:08:49,700 --> 01:08:46,349
fine but I use the word consciousness a

1761
01:08:51,649 --> 01:08:49,710
lot because it's general hmm you know

1762
01:08:53,539 --> 01:08:51,659
you could also say the question is this

1763
01:08:55,370 --> 01:08:53,549
consciousness survive death you could

1764
01:08:56,720 --> 01:08:55,380
also say just is there a soul that

1765
01:08:59,959 --> 01:08:56,730
survives death that's the same question

1766
01:09:01,070 --> 01:08:59,969
basically yeah is there a heaven it's

1767
01:09:02,570 --> 01:09:01,080
the same thing as if there's an

1768
01:09:03,379 --> 01:09:02,580
afterlife it just depends on how you

1769
01:09:05,510 --> 01:09:03,389
want to frame it

1770
01:09:08,269 --> 01:09:05,520
but if you use languages to put

1771
01:09:10,579 --> 01:09:08,279
applicable with any any context that

1772
01:09:11,890 --> 01:09:10,589
works the best yeah so yeah that's the

1773
01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:11,900
way I look at it cuz words immediately

1774
01:09:16,309 --> 01:09:14,250
conjure right those narratives certain

1775
01:09:18,079 --> 01:09:16,319
evils in our grocery images yeah no like

1776
01:09:19,939 --> 01:09:18,089
Angelina it's interesting she's a medium

1777
01:09:22,609 --> 01:09:19,949
most of them don't do this that Angelina

1778
01:09:24,079 --> 01:09:22,619
talks about heaven all the time why she

1779
01:09:25,459 --> 01:09:24,089
said and she said because I had a

1780
01:09:27,379 --> 01:09:25,469
reading with her recently the one that

1781
01:09:29,809 --> 01:09:27,389
Mike had her reading with earlier she

1782
01:09:32,030 --> 01:09:29,819
said them III believe in how I used the

1783
01:09:34,220 --> 01:09:32,040
word heaven that's that's my my word for

1784
01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:34,230
it you know it's fine she just explained

1785
01:09:38,059 --> 01:09:36,690
that and that's the word she uses so you

1786
01:09:39,740 --> 01:09:38,069
know everybody has to find their own

1787
01:09:42,109 --> 01:09:39,750
framework that works for them but all

1788
01:09:43,729 --> 01:09:42,119
basically in its essence means the same

1789
01:09:46,339 --> 01:09:43,739
thing it's kind of pointing to the same

1790
01:09:48,140 --> 01:09:46,349
thing right it's like people who have

1791
01:09:49,280 --> 01:09:48,150
your death experiences for instance

1792
01:09:51,010 --> 01:09:49,290
right where they're they're clinically

1793
01:09:53,440 --> 01:09:51,020
dead there's no brain no discern

1794
01:09:55,300 --> 01:09:53,450
brain activity or or heart activity and

1795
01:09:56,860 --> 01:09:55,310
they'll have these incredible

1796
01:10:00,700 --> 01:09:56,870
experiences and Leslie also writes about

1797
01:10:02,350 --> 01:10:00,710
this in her book and it depends on where

1798
01:10:04,390 --> 01:10:02,360
you're from what culture and maybe what

1799
01:10:07,390 --> 01:10:04,400
your beliefs are it definitely appears

1800
01:10:09,970 --> 01:10:07,400
that a person's beliefs in life can

1801
01:10:11,830 --> 01:10:09,980
affect what they experience when their

1802
01:10:15,760 --> 01:10:11,840
heart stops beating you know like what a

1803
01:10:20,170 --> 01:10:15,770
young kid who's raised a Catholic might

1804
01:10:26,920 --> 01:10:20,180
see what he calls Jesus where as a young

1805
01:10:30,310 --> 01:10:26,930
kid in India might see a Hindu goddess

1806
01:10:33,580 --> 01:10:30,320
you know it or just like a rainbow and

1807
01:10:35,320 --> 01:10:33,590
puppies like it you know it seems to the

1808
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:35,330
the phenomenon of

1809
01:10:41,980 --> 01:10:38,810
having these experiences after our brain

1810
01:10:44,500 --> 01:10:41,990
stopped functioning it's not like just

1811
01:10:47,890 --> 01:10:44,510
all it's not all the same you know it

1812
01:10:52,690 --> 01:10:47,900
doesn't appear that your thoughts about

1813
01:10:56,950 --> 01:10:52,700
what might be coming after death can can

1814
01:10:58,960 --> 01:10:56,960
influence what you at least some kind of

1815
01:11:00,310 --> 01:10:58,970
deity or something like yeah yeah there

1816
01:11:02,200 --> 01:11:00,320
are other elements of it that really

1817
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:02,210
aren't affected by culture right if your

1818
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:03,770
inner if you might a lot of times people

1819
01:11:08,470 --> 01:11:06,890
see experience of meetings with deceased

1820
01:11:10,330 --> 01:11:08,480
relatives or loved ones have gone before

1821
01:11:11,740 --> 01:11:10,340
them and that's pretty universal yeah

1822
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:11,750
there are universal aspects are yeah

1823
01:11:16,270 --> 01:11:14,090
well let me ask you guys this I mean we

1824
01:11:19,750 --> 01:11:16,280
had in our previous discussion with

1825
01:11:23,440 --> 01:11:19,760
Diana Veselka saying that a quote

1826
01:11:25,990 --> 01:11:23,450
unquote abduction and or alien

1827
01:11:27,730 --> 01:11:26,000
extraterrestrial experiencer who was

1828
01:11:30,040 --> 01:11:27,740
having an experience with what he

1829
01:11:33,100 --> 01:11:30,050
believed to be a close encounter with a

1830
01:11:35,770 --> 01:11:33,110
nonhuman intelligence saw a deceased

1831
01:11:38,320 --> 01:11:35,780
loved one in the same experience and I'm

1832
01:11:41,110 --> 01:11:38,330
working with an experienced er right now

1833
01:11:44,590 --> 01:11:41,120
who in trying to communicate with his

1834
01:11:47,770 --> 01:11:44,600
father had his father say back to him

1835
01:11:51,790 --> 01:11:47,780
you know he's where are you who are you

1836
01:11:54,850 --> 01:11:51,800
in and him saying I'm with those who

1837
01:11:56,620 --> 01:11:54,860
aren't from our world something to that

1838
01:11:58,030 --> 01:11:56,630
effect I don't want to put words in his

1839
01:12:00,970 --> 01:11:58,040
mouth this was through a like a medium

1840
01:12:02,330 --> 01:12:00,980
yeah but that could mean not from our

1841
01:12:04,339 --> 01:12:02,340
world could mean just

1842
01:12:05,930 --> 01:12:04,349
like is that the spirit people quote

1843
01:12:07,760 --> 01:12:05,940
spirit people who speak to stood

1844
01:12:09,800 --> 01:12:07,770
aiexander often talk about our world

1845
01:12:12,589 --> 01:12:09,810
right in our world it's like it's a

1846
01:12:14,810 --> 01:12:12,599
different world right so I guess that

1847
01:12:18,260 --> 01:12:14,820
could be interpreted it is Danny who

1848
01:12:19,850 --> 01:12:18,270
sounded like t however you think though

1849
01:12:23,120 --> 01:12:19,860
however that there is a connection

1850
01:12:27,109 --> 01:12:23,130
between your this book your first book

1851
01:12:28,669 --> 01:12:27,119
the et question these what I know what

1852
01:12:30,470 --> 01:12:28,679
we say is that if you pull back far

1853
01:12:32,990 --> 01:12:30,480
enough right if your perspective gets

1854
01:12:35,629 --> 01:12:33,000
big enough this all has to be connected

1855
01:12:37,399 --> 01:12:35,639
in some way right it's got to be part of

1856
01:12:39,140 --> 01:12:37,409
the same story yeah I look at it from

1857
01:12:40,729 --> 01:12:39,150
them and I would check out Diana's book

1858
01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:40,739
with respect to that question too but I

1859
01:12:44,830 --> 01:12:42,570
think there is a connection but I don't

1860
01:12:47,510 --> 01:12:44,840
quite understand what it is yet right

1861
01:12:51,010 --> 01:12:47,520
yeah it's a really good way to put it I

1862
01:12:54,859 --> 01:12:51,020
mean Diana says you know the question of

1863
01:12:58,970 --> 01:12:54,869
UFOs and those looking at this is it is

1864
01:13:01,820 --> 01:12:58,980
a new religion for a new age and I think

1865
01:13:03,560 --> 01:13:01,830
I struggled with that for a while when

1866
01:13:06,680 --> 01:13:03,570
she said that but the more I look at it

1867
01:13:09,649 --> 01:13:06,690
the more I I can't see it like you said

1868
01:13:11,540 --> 01:13:09,659
like the more you use oom out like oh my

1869
01:13:12,919 --> 01:13:11,550
god it is and I think the important

1870
01:13:14,510 --> 01:13:12,929
thing to realize about Diane's work and

1871
01:13:16,370 --> 01:13:14,520
I remember bringing this up and neat in

1872
01:13:17,570 --> 01:13:16,380
our interview with her but she didn't

1873
01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:17,580
really address it but I think it's

1874
01:13:22,100 --> 01:13:19,530
really important she's not saying that

1875
01:13:23,209 --> 01:13:22,110
UFOs are not physically real right just

1876
01:13:24,979 --> 01:13:23,219
because she puts them in a certain

1877
01:13:27,200 --> 01:13:24,989
context of rule of a new kind of

1878
01:13:30,410 --> 01:13:27,210
religion and kind of connects them to

1879
01:13:31,729 --> 01:13:30,420
previous experiences within the context

1880
01:13:34,070 --> 01:13:31,739
of Catholicism and everything like that

1881
01:13:36,709 --> 01:13:34,080
it does she's a it doesn't mean she's

1882
01:13:38,300 --> 01:13:36,719
denying their physical reality and I

1883
01:13:40,339 --> 01:13:38,310
think I remember on Facebook when her

1884
01:13:42,290 --> 01:13:40,349
book first came out people were posting

1885
01:13:43,879 --> 01:13:42,300
on my page oh she just says it's

1886
01:13:46,430 --> 01:13:43,889
religion you know she doesn't think

1887
01:13:49,580 --> 01:13:46,440
they're real and people - you have to

1888
01:13:51,950 --> 01:13:49,590
realize that it's both it's both at the

1889
01:13:54,950 --> 01:13:51,960
same time and she's completely aware of

1890
01:13:56,870 --> 01:13:54,960
the reality of the objects on a physical

1891
01:14:00,560 --> 01:13:56,880
level yeah she's also seems to be

1892
01:14:02,780 --> 01:14:00,570
warning against it becoming a religion

1893
01:14:05,180 --> 01:14:02,790
in the sense that it becomes dogmatic in

1894
01:14:07,070 --> 01:14:05,190
some ways and you know I mean I think

1895
01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:07,080
she's saying like Jeffrey [\h__\h] says

1896
01:14:10,520 --> 01:14:08,610
it's a lot you know make the cut this

1897
01:14:12,229 --> 01:14:10,530
object that Crapo puts it you know

1898
01:14:15,020 --> 01:14:12,239
there's the difference between the thing

1899
01:14:15,590 --> 01:14:15,030
and what we interpret the thing to be

1900
01:14:17,450 --> 01:14:15,600
yeah

1901
01:14:20,030 --> 01:14:17,460
and that's where the narratives and the

1902
01:14:21,710 --> 01:14:20,040
mythology start its interpretation yeah

1903
01:14:23,780 --> 01:14:21,720
right and I think you have to allow all

1904
01:14:25,580 --> 01:14:23,790
of it to be real at the same time and

1905
01:14:28,370 --> 01:14:25,590
that's what you have to be able to do is

1906
01:14:31,100 --> 01:14:28,380
hold even conflicting things hold them

1907
01:14:32,150 --> 01:14:31,110
in your mind at the same time mm-hmm you

1908
01:14:33,470 --> 01:14:32,160
have to be able to do that because

1909
01:14:34,370 --> 01:14:33,480
you're gonna run up against that kind of

1910
01:14:38,210 --> 01:14:34,380
stuff all the time

1911
01:14:40,580 --> 01:14:38,220
yeah it's certainly the focus of my

1912
01:14:44,690 --> 01:14:40,590
remaining life right now though is it

1913
01:14:46,490 --> 01:14:44,700
sister out what the intersection of this

1914
01:14:49,460 --> 01:14:46,500
stuff is you know like we talked to

1915
01:14:52,730 --> 01:14:49,470
these you know we can quote unquote

1916
01:14:55,790 --> 01:14:52,740
spirit people through Stewart and you

1917
01:14:58,460 --> 01:14:55,800
know I wonder do they have you know

1918
01:15:01,190 --> 01:14:58,470
non-human intelligence on their life

1919
01:15:03,920 --> 01:15:01,200
butting into their existences somehow do

1920
01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:03,930
they know about the ones on this side in

1921
01:15:07,190 --> 01:15:05,850
quote-unquote sigh you know how does

1922
01:15:11,210 --> 01:15:07,200
this how does this all relate

1923
01:15:12,980 --> 01:15:11,220
um it's frustrating because you start to

1924
01:15:15,350 --> 01:15:12,990
narrow in on something and you think you

1925
01:15:15,830 --> 01:15:15,360
got the answer and then this guy throws

1926
01:15:19,520 --> 01:15:15,840
at me

1927
01:15:22,970 --> 01:15:19,530
Oh also my my dead father said he's with

1928
01:15:24,530 --> 01:15:22,980
a hey what the hell yeah like I'm back

1929
01:15:28,570 --> 01:15:24,540
to square one again but I think you're

1930
01:15:31,040 --> 01:15:28,580
right Lizzy I think believing it all in

1931
01:15:32,990 --> 01:15:31,050
holding it all holding it over the same

1932
01:15:34,520 --> 01:15:33,000
just keep probing the questions and you

1933
01:15:36,560 --> 01:15:34,530
might never get the answers but the

1934
01:15:38,510 --> 01:15:36,570
journey of trying to find them is pretty

1935
01:15:40,070 --> 01:15:38,520
rewarding and exciting I mean that's

1936
01:15:43,970 --> 01:15:40,080
what has put the three of us in this

1937
01:15:45,440 --> 01:15:43,980
room together that's just it's just just

1938
01:15:48,290 --> 01:15:45,450
all amazing and it changes your whole

1939
01:15:51,650 --> 01:15:48,300
perception of what reality is it's how

1940
01:15:52,850 --> 01:15:51,660
much more than what we think yes and you

1941
01:15:55,010 --> 01:15:52,860
just have to be able to hold it all I

1942
01:15:56,600 --> 01:15:55,020
just for me that's really important to

1943
01:15:58,190 --> 01:15:56,610
is there aren't if there aren't answers

1944
01:15:59,720 --> 01:15:58,200
to things and you have to be able to be

1945
01:16:02,030 --> 01:15:59,730
hold this thing over here and this thing

1946
01:16:04,790 --> 01:16:02,040
over here cuz you're never really gonna

1947
01:16:06,290 --> 01:16:04,800
have the answer and then things just

1948
01:16:08,780 --> 01:16:06,300
kind of reveal themselves to you over

1949
01:16:10,700 --> 01:16:08,790
time yeah hey Jeffrey Craig will also

1950
01:16:13,340 --> 01:16:10,710
writes you know that you have to keep a

1951
01:16:16,040 --> 01:16:13,350
chuckle about you you know you have to

1952
01:16:18,650 --> 01:16:16,050
keep keep a sense of humor because this

1953
01:16:21,950 --> 01:16:18,660
is real crazy stuff we're getting in

1954
01:16:25,700 --> 01:16:21,960
there and it's baffling utterly baffling

1955
01:16:28,810 --> 01:16:25,710
and you know you've got you got it you

1956
01:16:31,130 --> 01:16:28,820
gotta keep it like a play

1957
01:16:32,780 --> 01:16:31,140
another book I'd really recommend is

1958
01:16:35,330 --> 01:16:32,790
Jeffrey Carroll's book called the flip

1959
01:16:36,950 --> 01:16:35,340
okay it's really accessible and it's

1960
01:16:38,479 --> 01:16:36,960
just really wonderful just about these

1961
01:16:40,310 --> 01:16:38,489
kind of shifts at consciousness that

1962
01:16:42,590 --> 01:16:40,320
take place when you have these

1963
01:16:44,959 --> 01:16:42,600
experiences and how common they are who

1964
01:16:47,300 --> 01:16:44,969
are some of the other leading people in

1965
01:16:50,060 --> 01:16:47,310
this world that you guys have found

1966
01:16:52,250 --> 01:16:50,070
yourself in I mean ya cried definitely I

1967
01:16:54,410 --> 01:16:52,260
will definitely dr. Jim Tucker from you

1968
01:16:56,060 --> 01:16:54,420
know University has written two books

1969
01:16:57,830 --> 01:16:56,070
the most his most recent book about the

1970
01:17:02,750 --> 01:16:57,840
children's past life memories is really

1971
01:17:07,430 --> 01:17:02,760
interesting he recommendable dean radin

1972
01:17:09,530 --> 01:17:07,440
is that name he's dealing with psychic

1973
01:17:11,600 --> 01:17:09,540
phenomena so we're you know one thing

1974
01:17:12,770 --> 01:17:11,610
that's what my book is really focused on

1975
01:17:14,660 --> 01:17:12,780
and what we're really talking about here

1976
01:17:17,060 --> 01:17:14,670
is the question of survivals past death

1977
01:17:18,260 --> 01:17:17,070
specifically yeah but there's all these

1978
01:17:19,669 --> 01:17:18,270
other interesting elements of

1979
01:17:20,990 --> 01:17:19,679
consciousness that don't really read

1980
01:17:22,880 --> 01:17:21,000
directly relate to that question

1981
01:17:24,530 --> 01:17:22,890
necessarily but they show that human

1982
01:17:26,899 --> 01:17:24,540
capacities are much greater than we

1983
01:17:29,419 --> 01:17:26,909
believe and that's where Dean comes in

1984
01:17:31,669 --> 01:17:29,429
because he studies saw he studies the

1985
01:17:32,870 --> 01:17:31,679
ability like a human telepathy and

1986
01:17:34,790 --> 01:17:32,880
things like that okay

1987
01:17:37,100 --> 01:17:34,800
so human abilities that transcend what

1988
01:17:38,750 --> 01:17:37,110
we conceive to be acceptable in the

1989
01:17:40,250 --> 01:17:38,760
scientific world but they don't

1990
01:17:43,959 --> 01:17:40,260
necessarily have to do with surviving

1991
01:17:47,169 --> 01:17:43,969
death okay so there's a dr. Parr Nia

1992
01:17:49,910 --> 01:17:47,179
right who's do exam our Sam carne of

1993
01:17:52,160 --> 01:17:49,920
studying your death experiences and it

1994
01:17:54,620 --> 01:17:52,170
is working on I think of him normal so

1995
01:17:56,479 --> 01:17:54,630
yeah they're getting on loml chapter my

1996
01:17:58,250 --> 01:17:56,489
bookies over leaving of people on

1997
01:18:00,229 --> 01:17:58,260
near-death experiences he's incredible

1998
01:18:04,820 --> 01:18:00,239
and Pierre fennec is another great one

1999
01:18:06,649 --> 01:18:04,830
okay end of life experiences fe fe well

2000
01:18:09,290 --> 01:18:06,659
I've got about ten chapters in my book

2001
01:18:11,479 --> 01:18:09,300
written by some of these people so I

2002
01:18:13,520 --> 01:18:11,489
invited about 10 people to write their

2003
01:18:15,620 --> 01:18:13,530
own chapters so I can do with UFOs the

2004
01:18:17,060 --> 01:18:15,630
hottest any hashtag yeah and so you get

2005
01:18:19,370 --> 01:18:17,070
to hear directly from a lot of these

2006
01:18:22,550 --> 01:18:19,380
great people who have also written books

2007
01:18:24,709 --> 01:18:22,560
who've studied this stuff that's again I

2008
01:18:30,430 --> 01:18:24,719
keep coming back end E's and alien

2009
01:18:35,750 --> 01:18:32,750
after death phenomena it seems like

2010
01:18:38,120 --> 01:18:35,760
Andy's or the ones that been linked mmm

2011
01:18:40,340 --> 01:18:38,130
obviously most aliens because that's

2012
01:18:40,680 --> 01:18:40,350
where people say they see them yes when

2013
01:18:42,930 --> 01:18:40,690
they have

2014
01:18:45,000 --> 01:18:42,940
this was something I had no idea about

2015
01:18:47,880 --> 01:18:45,010
until recently that there was this

2016
01:18:49,709 --> 01:18:47,890
connection between people experiencers

2017
01:18:52,229 --> 01:18:49,719
seeing you know these non-human

2018
01:18:53,729 --> 01:18:52,239
intelligences whatever they are and also

2019
01:18:58,110 --> 01:18:53,739
their deceased loved ones I had no idea

2020
01:19:01,110 --> 01:18:58,120
and I just read with these or a new

2021
01:19:03,750 --> 01:19:01,120
world and that's I that I like to flower

2022
01:19:06,150 --> 01:19:03,760
at that book I'm Jaime retired and he

2023
01:19:07,740 --> 01:19:06,160
gets into this question a lot what is

2024
01:19:10,770 --> 01:19:07,750
the relationship because when he wrote

2025
01:19:13,350 --> 01:19:10,780
communion he and his wife Anne started

2026
01:19:15,390 --> 01:19:13,360
getting hundreds of thousands of letters

2027
01:19:20,040 --> 01:19:15,400
from experiencers as I'm sure your

2028
01:19:21,900 --> 01:19:20,050
listeners know and what Anne started she

2029
01:19:23,760 --> 01:19:21,910
started to keep a list of the

2030
01:19:25,890 --> 01:19:23,770
commonalities right like things that

2031
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:25,900
would come up time and again she would

2032
01:19:29,640 --> 01:19:27,850
start to make a list and make a hash

2033
01:19:32,550 --> 01:19:29,650
mark right for how many times this came

2034
01:19:34,020 --> 01:19:32,560
up and one of the things that was coming

2035
01:19:36,689 --> 01:19:34,030
up over and over and over again was

2036
01:19:38,340 --> 01:19:36,699
people seeing their deceased loved ones

2037
01:19:40,860 --> 01:19:38,350
and I had never heard about that I knew

2038
01:19:43,470 --> 01:19:40,870
nothing about that and that's really

2039
01:19:46,080 --> 01:19:43,480
where Whitley's I would say his focus

2040
01:19:48,090 --> 01:19:46,090
seems to be right now based on his most

2041
01:19:49,590 --> 01:19:48,100
recent book just because he lost an and

2042
01:19:51,780 --> 01:19:49,600
she's had a lot of communications from

2043
01:19:54,209 --> 01:19:51,790
Andrews life so that sort of brings them

2044
01:19:55,830 --> 01:19:54,219
all closer together to this aspect of it

2045
01:19:58,860 --> 01:19:55,840
yeah right it wasn't something he talked

2046
01:20:01,170 --> 01:19:58,870
a lot about before no yeah I think I

2047
01:20:03,150 --> 01:20:01,180
think it's a way to cope too if we're

2048
01:20:05,580 --> 01:20:03,160
gonna get to the very human visceral

2049
01:20:08,640 --> 01:20:05,590
level of all this no matter how far out

2050
01:20:12,240 --> 01:20:08,650
we want to go in theory I think a lot of

2051
01:20:16,439 --> 01:20:12,250
it comes back on ourselves of wanting to

2052
01:20:17,880 --> 01:20:16,449
keep that loved one or person somehow in

2053
01:20:23,610 --> 01:20:17,890
our life and whether that just comes

2054
01:20:26,670 --> 01:20:23,620
with memory or some sort of interaction

2055
01:20:28,220 --> 01:20:26,680
or communication I think it really does

2056
01:20:34,350 --> 01:20:28,230
boil down to

2057
01:20:37,530 --> 01:20:34,360
we are very caring loving creatures I

2058
01:20:40,890 --> 01:20:37,540
think that's why we have the hearts and

2059
01:20:43,200 --> 01:20:40,900
minds that we do you know not all of us

2060
01:20:45,479 --> 01:20:43,210
all the time but for the most part I

2061
01:20:47,780 --> 01:20:45,489
think we all just want we don't want to

2062
01:20:49,320 --> 01:20:47,790
lose absolutely something we don't

2063
01:20:51,330 --> 01:20:49,330
wonderful about all

2064
01:20:54,180 --> 01:20:51,340
it's about wonderful about mediumship is

2065
01:20:56,010 --> 01:20:54,190
that it connects you with that reality

2066
01:20:58,200 --> 01:20:56,020
of connecting to your loved one and you

2067
01:21:01,650 --> 01:20:58,210
can take away with it whatever you want

2068
01:21:02,490 --> 01:21:01,660
but the way I look at it is why I have

2069
01:21:03,990 --> 01:21:02,500
my doubt

2070
01:21:06,240 --> 01:21:04,000
you know the doubt is always a lingering

2071
01:21:09,630 --> 01:21:06,250
thing but then why not allow myself to

2072
01:21:12,210 --> 01:21:09,640
accept the experience as it as it felt

2073
01:21:14,190 --> 01:21:12,220
to be in the moment and therefore as you

2074
01:21:16,530 --> 01:21:14,200
say it allows you to feel that

2075
01:21:18,510 --> 01:21:16,540
connection to your loved ones when

2076
01:21:20,820 --> 01:21:18,520
you're suffering the grief the kind of

2077
01:21:23,640 --> 01:21:20,830
grief that my suffering we lost his dad

2078
01:21:26,010 --> 01:21:23,650
is just almost you can barely survive so

2079
01:21:28,950 --> 01:21:26,020
this process is very healing for people

2080
01:21:31,200 --> 01:21:28,960
regardless of its objective reality or

2081
01:21:32,910 --> 01:21:31,210
non reality if you go through this

2082
01:21:34,380 --> 01:21:32,920
process and you can find these ways of

2083
01:21:36,360 --> 01:21:34,390
connecting with your loved one after

2084
01:21:38,280 --> 01:21:36,370
they they've died it just changes

2085
01:21:40,680 --> 01:21:38,290
everything because you you always feel

2086
01:21:43,230 --> 01:21:40,690
connected to them and it can help a lot

2087
01:21:45,510 --> 01:21:43,240
with grieving so it's wonderful in that

2088
01:21:47,220 --> 01:21:45,520
way yeah for me again I'm not a

2089
01:21:50,520 --> 01:21:47,230
therapist so but not recommending any

2090
01:21:52,380 --> 01:21:50,530
course of action but for me personally I

2091
01:21:54,480 --> 01:21:52,390
has less less he said I was really

2092
01:21:56,520 --> 01:21:54,490
devastated my dad's passing was a total

2093
01:21:59,850 --> 01:21:56,530
shock and and that was I was I was in a

2094
01:22:02,130 --> 01:21:59,860
rough place and having a full-blown

2095
01:22:03,690 --> 01:22:02,140
existential crisis you know thinking if

2096
01:22:06,300 --> 01:22:03,700
someone is amazing as my dad could

2097
01:22:07,800 --> 01:22:06,310
suddenly as it was like he had never

2098
01:22:10,800 --> 01:22:07,810
been here before then what was the point

2099
01:22:13,200 --> 01:22:10,810
of anything yeah right and when I had

2100
01:22:15,600 --> 01:22:13,210
this first experience it instantly

2101
01:22:19,620 --> 01:22:15,610
pulled me out of that whole like for me

2102
01:22:22,950 --> 01:22:19,630
it was instantaneous and you know so I I

2103
01:22:24,930 --> 01:22:22,960
recommend to grieving people all the

2104
01:22:26,670 --> 01:22:24,940
time now people contact me a lot asking

2105
01:22:30,090 --> 01:22:26,680
about mediumship and whether or not it's

2106
01:22:32,100 --> 01:22:30,100
something to try and I can just say that

2107
01:22:33,900 --> 01:22:32,110
for me personally it really made a

2108
01:22:37,560 --> 01:22:33,910
difference in my life and I've seen it

2109
01:22:38,730 --> 01:22:37,570
help other people and you know like like

2110
01:22:40,920 --> 01:22:38,740
Leslie said so much of this is

2111
01:22:42,840 --> 01:22:40,930
experiential you know you can read about

2112
01:22:45,540 --> 01:22:42,850
it as much as you'd like but until you

2113
01:22:47,810 --> 01:22:45,550
experience it for yourself you can't

2114
01:22:50,910 --> 01:22:47,820
really know what that moment is like

2115
01:22:51,510 --> 01:22:50,920
where the veil seems too thin for a

2116
01:22:54,630 --> 01:22:51,520
moment

2117
01:22:56,550 --> 01:22:54,640
whatever that veil is yeah yeah get to

2118
01:22:58,620 --> 01:22:56,560
peek behind every now and again I think

2119
01:22:59,970 --> 01:22:58,630
that hope having hope that there is

2120
01:23:01,680 --> 01:22:59,980
something other

2121
01:23:04,140 --> 01:23:01,690
right it's just a wonderful thing to

2122
01:23:05,610 --> 01:23:04,150
have in your life yeah and why not and

2123
01:23:06,780 --> 01:23:05,620
you know if you can if there's not just

2124
01:23:08,850 --> 01:23:06,790
your own experience but there's also

2125
01:23:11,370 --> 01:23:08,860
actual evidence and studies that that

2126
01:23:13,860 --> 01:23:11,380
also support that yeah you come away

2127
01:23:15,630 --> 01:23:13,870
with you know that's why I was so

2128
01:23:17,460 --> 01:23:15,640
exciting to do this research because you

2129
01:23:20,370 --> 01:23:17,470
left without experience of the great

2130
01:23:21,960 --> 01:23:20,380
possibility and yes it gives you hope it

2131
01:23:23,790 --> 01:23:21,970
gives you a sense that death isn't the

2132
01:23:26,190 --> 01:23:23,800
end and that there's something much

2133
01:23:29,729 --> 01:23:26,200
bigger going on than just our immediate

2134
01:23:31,830 --> 01:23:29,739
physical day-to-day lives yeah and yeah

2135
01:23:33,510 --> 01:23:31,840
everybody think it's you know like would

2136
01:23:35,790 --> 01:23:33,520
be mentioned living without I know right

2137
01:23:39,870 --> 01:23:35,800
life is so much better if you're not

2138
01:23:43,650 --> 01:23:39,880
constantly worried about it ending good

2139
01:23:46,620 --> 01:23:43,660
point yeah oh wow well you know sort of

2140
01:23:48,840 --> 01:23:46,630
to wrap this up guys hope looking

2141
01:23:51,600 --> 01:23:48,850
towards the future I know you can't give

2142
01:23:53,550 --> 01:23:51,610
away too much but the this is brought

2143
01:23:55,050 --> 01:23:53,560
you together in ways I'm sure you never

2144
01:23:57,060 --> 01:23:55,060
imagined I'm sure you've had very

2145
01:24:00,300 --> 01:23:57,070
profound experiences with one another

2146
01:24:02,900 --> 01:24:00,310
and separately which can bring people

2147
01:24:05,130 --> 01:24:02,910
closer than you can possibly imagine um

2148
01:24:06,870 --> 01:24:05,140
what are you working on is there

2149
01:24:10,080 --> 01:24:06,880
anything you can give our audience about

2150
01:24:13,050 --> 01:24:10,090
what comes next for the two of you well

2151
01:24:14,310 --> 01:24:13,060
one thing we're working on is a I mean I

2152
01:24:16,320 --> 01:24:14,320
wouldn't say we're working on it but

2153
01:24:22,320 --> 01:24:16,330
there is a documentary series being

2154
01:24:24,360 --> 01:24:22,330
produced based on my book and so I'm a

2155
01:24:25,950 --> 01:24:24,370
producer for that I mean I'm very

2156
01:24:28,530 --> 01:24:25,960
involved with the whole production and

2157
01:24:30,900 --> 01:24:28,540
there's six six episodes and Mike is

2158
01:24:32,700 --> 01:24:30,910
part of that so Mike is one of the

2159
01:24:34,950 --> 01:24:32,710
characters in lab who describes his

2160
01:24:37,320 --> 01:24:34,960
journey with discovering his connection

2161
01:24:39,780 --> 01:24:37,330
to his dad through mediumship and other

2162
01:24:42,390 --> 01:24:39,790
experiences he had signs from his dad

2163
01:24:43,560 --> 01:24:42,400
and all kinds of stuff so that's

2164
01:24:47,070 --> 01:24:43,570
something that's been really fun to

2165
01:24:48,840 --> 01:24:47,080
share I mean I'm I'm more meshed in it

2166
01:24:51,479 --> 01:24:48,850
the mike is because because I'm also a

2167
01:24:53,640 --> 01:24:51,489
producer on it but I think it's gonna be

2168
01:24:55,650 --> 01:24:53,650
really interesting in it it does it goes

2169
01:24:57,150 --> 01:24:55,660
off in a lot of different areas I mean

2170
01:24:58,800 --> 01:24:57,160
way more than what's in my book it

2171
01:25:00,990 --> 01:24:58,810
doesn't cover everything in my book and

2172
01:25:03,360 --> 01:25:01,000
it covers a lot of new stuff and it's

2173
01:25:06,630 --> 01:25:03,370
very much focused on a lot of it is

2174
01:25:08,340 --> 01:25:06,640
about people's personal journeys it's

2175
01:25:10,320 --> 01:25:08,350
not it's not really heavily heavy

2176
01:25:12,479 --> 01:25:10,330
scientifically you know heavy heavy duty

2177
01:25:13,740 --> 01:25:12,489
science but it brings the experts in but

2178
01:25:16,290 --> 01:25:13,750
there's a lot

2179
01:25:19,500 --> 01:25:16,300
human beings in this series having these

2180
01:25:22,440 --> 01:25:19,510
amazing experiences yeah and it's gonna

2181
01:25:24,770 --> 01:25:22,450
be aired I can't say yet where but it's

2182
01:25:26,490 --> 01:25:24,780
gonna have a major major exposure

2183
01:25:28,770 --> 01:25:26,500
probably next fall

2184
01:25:30,660 --> 01:25:28,780
pilots in production right now so that's

2185
01:25:32,610 --> 01:25:30,670
been something that Mike and I have

2186
01:25:36,660 --> 01:25:32,620
shared and we also have a sitting group

2187
01:25:38,160 --> 01:25:36,670
that we sit together a kind of a medium

2188
01:25:40,260 --> 01:25:38,170
should probably do every Monday together

2189
01:25:41,910 --> 01:25:40,270
there's some other people too so we're

2190
01:25:43,950 --> 01:25:41,920
yeah we're sharing a lot of this journey

2191
01:25:45,810 --> 01:25:43,960
right now and it's really meaningful so

2192
01:26:01,290 --> 01:25:45,820
much more fun to have someone to share

2193
01:26:03,120 --> 01:26:01,300
the next gotten a sign from the other

2194
01:26:03,810 --> 01:26:03,130
side race really be that or is it

2195
01:26:08,070 --> 01:26:03,820
something else

2196
01:26:08,930 --> 01:26:08,080
right yeah yeah you build off of one

2197
01:26:11,160 --> 01:26:08,940
another

2198
01:26:13,260 --> 01:26:11,170
it's a beautiful thing it's the same in

2199
01:26:16,110 --> 01:26:13,270
the UFO field the minute I have some

2200
01:26:17,850 --> 01:26:16,120
sort of revelation or anything you know

2201
01:26:20,090 --> 01:26:17,860
first person they call up is my mentor

2202
01:26:23,700 --> 01:26:20,100
yeah then we talk for four or five hours

2203
01:26:25,610 --> 01:26:23,710
yeah the rest is history but um I think

2204
01:26:28,770 --> 01:26:25,620
I think you're right Lesley I think

2205
01:26:30,750 --> 01:26:28,780
there's a lot of reward for each

2206
01:26:33,210 --> 01:26:30,760
individual to be gained when looking at

2207
01:26:35,580 --> 01:26:33,220
things like this and the journey always

2208
01:26:37,950 --> 01:26:35,590
seems to be far more rewarding than any

2209
01:26:39,840 --> 01:26:37,960
of the destinations that's true it's all

2210
01:26:41,850 --> 01:26:39,850
about the journey so now I gotta get the

2211
01:26:44,160 --> 01:26:41,860
final answers right I mean you can maybe

2212
01:26:46,050 --> 01:26:44,170
get answers for individual moments right

2213
01:26:47,760 --> 01:26:46,060
in that journey but the bigger picture

2214
01:26:50,190 --> 01:26:47,770
yeah I think it's always gonna be a

2215
01:26:52,350 --> 01:26:50,200
mystery yeah and I think you know once

2216
01:26:55,560 --> 01:26:52,360
we all leave this mortal coil we'll

2217
01:26:59,690 --> 01:26:55,570
maybe find the answer well we will we

2218
01:27:03,810 --> 01:27:01,770
that's what we're trying to figure out

2219
01:27:05,340 --> 01:27:03,820
and so I can't thank you guys enough

2220
01:27:06,540 --> 01:27:05,350
that's what I say that's what I say the

2221
01:27:08,910 --> 01:27:06,550
sceptics all the time like yeah that's

2222
01:27:14,790 --> 01:27:08,920
it if I'm right I'm gonna be like I told

2223
01:27:18,600 --> 01:27:14,800
you so right I had two friends who said

2224
01:27:20,730 --> 01:27:18,610
look whichever one of us passes away

2225
01:27:22,770 --> 01:27:20,740
first let's make a deal I'm gonna come

2226
01:27:25,560 --> 01:27:22,780
back to haunt you all right that's gonna

2227
01:27:27,220 --> 01:27:25,570
happen and sure enough a good friend of

2228
01:27:29,470 --> 01:27:27,230
mine Paul Kimball

2229
01:27:35,320 --> 01:27:29,480
lost a friend of his very early in life

2230
01:27:37,030 --> 01:27:35,330
very abruptly and since then didn't know

2231
01:27:40,780 --> 01:27:37,040
how to deal with it order the grief for

2232
01:27:42,580 --> 01:27:40,790
the loss and sure enough his friend came

2233
01:27:45,340 --> 01:27:42,590
back Wow

2234
01:27:48,160 --> 01:27:45,350
in told him you know clear I'm haunting

2235
01:27:49,630 --> 01:27:48,170
yeah so I mean it doesn't get much

2236
01:27:50,710 --> 01:27:49,640
better than that and I'm sure they said

2237
01:27:52,720 --> 01:27:50,720
what do you want it's like we were

2238
01:27:54,610 --> 01:27:52,730
talking about earlier I helped him with

2239
01:27:57,160 --> 01:27:54,620
the whole process of it's beautiful

2240
01:27:58,780 --> 01:27:57,170
having this yeah it can be scary it can

2241
01:28:01,060 --> 01:27:58,790
be exciting but at the end of the day

2242
01:28:03,070 --> 01:28:01,070
it's it's beautiful and I can't think of

2243
01:28:04,930 --> 01:28:03,080
another way to look at it I fear death

2244
01:28:09,040 --> 01:28:04,940
for so long but under having this

2245
01:28:12,160 --> 01:28:09,050
conversation it's it's opened I think my

2246
01:28:17,470 --> 01:28:12,170
mind in my heart to what could come nice

2247
01:28:20,229 --> 01:28:17,480
so that's extremely it gives me hope

2248
01:28:21,790 --> 01:28:20,239
really glad yeah that's great thank you

2249
01:28:26,050 --> 01:28:21,800
you guys think thanks for having us our

2250
01:28:27,790 --> 01:28:26,060
pleasure absolutely that's it for this

2251
01:28:29,800 --> 01:28:27,800
week's episode be sure to keep a look

2252
01:28:32,470 --> 01:28:29,810
out for Leslie and Mike's documentary

2253
01:28:35,140 --> 01:28:32,480
series surviving death in the very near

2254
01:28:38,050 --> 01:28:35,150
future for updates follow Leslie on

2255
01:28:41,440 --> 01:28:38,060
twitter at Leslie cane be sure to follow

2256
01:28:43,030 --> 01:28:41,450
us on twitter at somewhere skies if you

2257
01:28:45,100 --> 01:28:43,040
enjoyed today's show please show your

2258
01:28:48,040 --> 01:28:45,110
support by subscribing rating and

2259
01:28:49,840 --> 01:28:48,050
reviewing on Apple podcasts your Android

2260
01:28:52,240 --> 01:28:49,850
apps or wherever you get the show it

2261
01:28:55,420 --> 01:28:52,250
helps us gain visibility and find new

2262
01:28:57,100 --> 01:28:55,430
listeners thank you in advance if you

2263
01:28:59,110 --> 01:28:57,110
have a story you'd like to share on the

2264
01:29:01,090 --> 01:28:59,120
show you can contact me personally

2265
01:29:03,550 --> 01:29:01,100
through the official website somewhere

2266
01:29:06,490 --> 01:29:03,560
in the skies calm thank you as always to

2267
01:29:09,250 --> 01:29:06,500
the e1 podcast network world planet TV

2268
01:29:11,860 --> 01:29:09,260
and especially to you for listening I'll

2269
01:29:14,110 --> 01:29:11,870
see you here next week and remember keep

2270
01:29:15,920 --> 01:29:14,120
your feet on the ground but never stop

2271
01:29:56,649 --> 01:29:15,930
searching somewhere in the sky

2272
01:29:59,089 --> 01:29:56,659
[Music]

2273
01:30:00,859 --> 01:29:59,099
somewhere in the skies is produced by

2274
01:30:02,810 --> 01:30:00,869
Third Kind productions in association

2275
01:30:04,580 --> 01:30:02,820
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